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Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 20, 2017 7:10:45 GMT
If expats are not subject to our laws and taxes, should they get a vote? (Discuss peaceably).
Should we replace the house of lords with a PR elected chamber .. 4 or 5 per county or unitary authority? (Ditto).
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Apr 20, 2017 7:22:39 GMT
You don't unite a country after a 51.9%/48.1% split by taking an extreme approach to Brexit Typical politically exaggerated use of the word extreme, I suppose all forums will have people joining to spread their propaganda until the election. Welcome to the forum Tim, or is it Nick?
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Post by davee39 on Apr 20, 2017 8:39:18 GMT
Support the candidate who closest represents your own views?
Irrelevant
The three line whip will soon stop your good local MP having any ideas, we can't have Mp's who can think!
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 20, 2017 9:48:51 GMT
You don't unite a country after a 51.9%/48.1% split by taking an extreme approach to Brexit Typical politically exaggerated use of the word extreme, I suppose all forums will have people joining to spread their propaganda until the election. Welcome to the forum Tim, or is it Nick? Neither. Thanks for the warm welcome. I forgot that any opinion that doesn't wholly support the government's view of Brexit is now "propaganda". Good luck with "crushing the saboteurs" etc.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Apr 20, 2017 10:09:02 GMT
You don't unite a country after a 51.9%/48.1% split by taking an extreme approach to Brexit, telling the 48.9% they are "remoaners" or "enemies of the people", or telling Londoners and Scots that London/Scotland are not legitimate entities whose opinion matters (when in fact they have a significant degree of autonomy/self government, and many people think they should have more). The tyranny of the (tiny) majority is not unity. Unless the current approach changes, the growing divide in the UK, or what remains of it, will be seen very clearly in years to come, and the PMs hollow assertion that we are "coming together" will be but a pipe dream. I won't be commenting further in here as I can see it is already turning toxic but people really need to be aware of shills like this. Why have you joined a P2P forum to talk solely about politics? The "tyranny of the majority" is more commonly known as democracy and it doesn't always go the way you want it to. And as for complaining about being referred to as "remoaners", I think you have it very easy compared to the many inflammatory slurs that were used to label people who supported Brexit.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Apr 20, 2017 10:10:13 GMT
Not much point me voting. I'd vote Lib/Lab but my constituency has a significant Tory majority. I find it hard to have any interest in the UK democratic process when first-past-the-post means my vote will never count. Of course the feudal overlords in the Tory party like it that way. The're too busy "taking back control" and wouldn't want serfs like me getting in the way. You could of course have a system like Belgium. The result is pretty much nobody wants to vote because you pretty much end up with the same carp no matter who you vote for, so they had to make it compulsory to vote or nobody would bother. Incidentally, I'm still at a loss to explain how this snap election strengthened the Pound, much to my annoyance. Can anybody enlighten me?
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 20, 2017 10:17:18 GMT
Not much point me voting. I'd vote Lib/Lab but my constituency has a significant Tory majority. I find it hard to have any interest in the UK democratic process when first-past-the-post means my vote will never count. Of course the feudal overlords in the Tory party like it that way. The're too busy "taking back control" and wouldn't want serfs like me getting in the way. You could of course have a system like Belgium. The result is pretty much nobody wants to vote because you pretty much end up with the same carp no matter who you vote for, so they had to make it compulsory to vote or nobody would bother. Incidentally, I'm still at a loss to explain how this snap election strengthened the Pound, much to my annoyance. Can anybody enlighten me? The markets expect a large Conservative majority which will strengthen TM to carry out her agenda without risk of turmoil either from either side of the Brexit debate. This is seen as providing stability and certainty plus a strong economy. To some extent thefefore politics have been taken out of the market and on economics the pound should be stronger
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 20, 2017 10:24:14 GMT
You don't unite a country after a 51.9%/48.1% split by taking an extreme approach to Brexit, telling the 48.9% they are "remoaners" or "enemies of the people", or telling Londoners and Scots that London/Scotland are not legitimate entities whose opinion matters (when in fact they have a significant degree of autonomy/self government, and many people think they should have more). The tyranny of the (tiny) majority is not unity. Unless the current approach changes, the growing divide in the UK, or what remains of it, will be seen very clearly in years to come, and the PMs hollow assertion that we are "coming together" will be but a pipe dream. I won't be commenting further in here as I can see it is already turning toxic but people really need to be aware of shills like this. Why have you joined a P2P forum to talk solely about politics? The "tyranny of the majority" is more commonly known as democracy and it doesn't always go the way you want it to. And as for complaining about being referred to as "remoaners", I think you have it very easy compared to the many inflammatory slurs that were used to label people who supported Brexit. Why do you say I have joined to talk solely about politics? I just responded to a thread that someone else started! And all I get is abuse for posting. Well thanks.
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Apr 20, 2017 10:31:35 GMT
It will be interesting to see what happens to the euro on Monday should Melenchon and Le Pen emerge as the winners in the first round of the French election. The polls have been showing that as quite possible recently. They both want to scrap the euro.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 20, 2017 10:36:51 GMT
Anyhow, I have been suitably warned off this debate - I shan't respond to any controversial or political issues in future so as not to upset sensitive souls.
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stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 20, 2017 10:56:01 GMT
IFISAcava. There is debate and there is insult. You are entitled to an opinion. The forum rules cover being insulting. I am sure your well considered comments may surface elsewhere in the enchanted Forrest😊
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Apr 20, 2017 11:29:15 GMT
Incidentally, I'm still at a loss to explain how this snap election strengthened the Pound, much to my annoyance. Can anybody enlighten me? The snap election strengthened the pound because the markets hope/believe that (1) May will get a much bigger majority, and (2) this will enable her to face down the extremists in her party and secure a sensible Brexit deal for the UK. They think this is why the election was called. I hope they are right.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 20, 2017 11:29:45 GMT
There are too many personal attacks and deliberate insults in this thread, and a lack of acceptance by some that people are entitled to different views. Any more of this and the thread will be locked. Last warning.
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Post by chielamangus on Apr 20, 2017 16:29:57 GMT
If expats are not subject to our laws and taxes, should they get a vote? (Discuss peaceably). Should we replace the house of lords with a PR elected chamber .. 4 or 5 per county or unitary authority? (Ditto). EU expats DID have the vote if (a) they had been abroad less than 15 years and (b) they could be bothered to register. Those away more than 15 years (and hopefully integrated into their new country) qualified for votes at the national elections in their adopted country. Most expats could, if they wished, get double votes in local and regional elections because they could vote in two countries at the same time. The majority of expats in my experience (over two decades) just want to have their cake and eat it, picking and choosing what they want from each country, and rarely making a positive social contribution. They are generally a bunch of whingers, whether about local bureaucracy or British policy which is always out to get them. Quite a few manage to slide in between the rules of their home and adopted countries and avoid the level of tax that afflicts everyone else. So should they get the vote? The current rules seem fair enough to me. (I was an expat at the time but I still managed to vote and was even prepared to make a special journey to the UK if my ballot paper did not arrive in time - an event which deprived me of my vote in 2015). And yes, the H of L should certainly be abolished. No one should have a seat for life nor be able to purchase it. It's a bigger stain on our democracy even than ... Tony Blair.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 21, 2017 8:03:21 GMT
If expats are not subject to our laws and taxes, should they get a vote? (Discuss peaceably). Should we replace the house of lords with a PR elected chamber .. 4 or 5 per county or unitary authority? (Ditto). EU expats DID have the vote if (a) they had been abroad less than 15 years and (b) they could be bothered to register. Those away more than 15 years (and hopefully integrated into their new country) qualified for votes at the national elections in their adopted country. Most expats could, if they wished, get double votes in local and regional elections because they could vote in two countries at the same time. The majority of expats in my experience (over two decades) just want to have their cake and eat it, picking and choosing what they want from each country, and rarely making a positive social contribution. They are generally a bunch of whingers, whether about local bureaucracy or British policy which is always out to get them. Quite a few manage to slide in between the rules of their home and adopted countries and avoid the level of tax that afflicts everyone else. So should they get the vote? The current rules seem fair enough to me. (I was an expat at the time but I still managed to vote and was even prepared to make a special journey to the UK if my ballot paper did not arrive in time - an event which deprived me of my vote in 2015). Yes, and no. While I agree that those not resident in a country for an extended period should not get to vote, they should be able to vote in their adoptive country. EU membership, particularly, means that nationality should be irrelevant - yet my Belgian neighbour (resident here for 30 years) doesn't get to vote, nor did my Swedish mother in law (resident here for nearly 50 years). If you're going to disenfranchise people based on having long since emigrated, then similarly enfranchise long-term immigrants. Ignoring how the chamber is constituted, it can only be a good thing to have a second chamber to provide checks and balances. Removing the pressures to be re-elected regularly, and reducing the party political influences, means that there should be a calmer, steadier, longer-term view that's lamentably absent in the Commons.
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