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Post by yorkshireman on Jun 3, 2017 12:39:03 GMT
Guido is hardly the most politically neutral of commentators. Agreed, however I would say that he is no more biased than the BBC which has a far greater potential to misrepresent the facts, should it choose to do so, as it reaches a far wider audience than most other media outlets combined including the Conservative supporting press.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Jun 3, 2017 12:56:06 GMT
What a shame that logic based on facts, that can be corroborated, are often ignored by the fools that blindly follow and promote one party.
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stub8535
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Post by stub8535 on Jun 3, 2017 15:02:39 GMT
Anyone know the current betting odds on a labour snp coalition please? Even that well balanced newspaper that is the express are of the same opinion now. Look to their front page headline today 
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Post by yorkshireman on Jun 3, 2017 16:49:12 GMT
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 3, 2017 19:02:29 GMT
** Note, some of the following may offend. I apologise if it does, but I need to get it off my chest. I also expect somewhere between some and all of you to disagree with my views, but that's OK  ** I find myself deeply disillusioned by the current state of the political landscape in the UK at the moment. Corbyn is principled, but I don't agree with any of his principles. He's a man of conviction, but I don't respect any of his convictions. McDonnell is an outright economic nitwit. Abbott can't count. Where's Chukka, or perhaps David, when you need one of them? May is a lily livered lightweight who, were she a man, would start sweating and see her voice rise an octave or two at the first approach of serious confrontation. Then add her narrow minded 1970s outloook, minimal collaboration, patronising "little Britain" village vicarage views on life, living and the world generally, and inability to admit mistakes, and I find myself deeply unenthusiastic. One of the Brexiteers would make for an amusing dinner party guest, the other two are at best smug dimwits, at worst delusional. Gove, supposedly an intellectual heavyweight, makes Brutus look competent. The best of the bunch is Hammond but he appears to have been silenced by some Conservative Malfoy or other. I won't vote Lib Dem because much as I was a remainer, and much as I regret the decision to leave, we've had the referendum, let's get over it, and get on with it. My vote for them would not be a vote for a second referendum but that would never be anything other than misinterpreted. Come back Nick, all is forgiven. Where's my centrist, outward looking, United Kingdom believing, Salmond? Nope, no Spartacus standing up there is there  . Can I vote for Macron? I'm going to go and get drunk. |
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 3, 2017 21:22:32 GMT
Interesting post. I put something essentially very similar onto a Facebook thread 48 hours ago. It was late and I had had several glasses of wine: it was stream of consciousness stuff but was a) valid and b) was a close match. I am 52 going on 53 and never have I felt as disenfranchised as I do at the moment. I have always voted regardless of the comprises in principles I may have to make as its a privilege that many in the world don't have and we should treasure that with every fibre of our being; and be adult enough to recognise that those compromises are a reality.
Right now, I'm not sure how i can bring myself to vote for any of the current mainstream antagonists. I have never been more disillusioned with UK politics than I am now.
I disagree with one point: namely that JC is 'principled'. He thinks he is, and so do his followers. However, it is very easy to portray that when you are incapable of accepting that the real world necessitates hard choices. Is it really principled to make multiple commitments which involve massive expenditure when those are the nice soft things that all people would like to do while ignoring the point that there are significant impacts elsewhere. My view is he is not principled at all, he is just existing on a different planet. And given that in his ideal world his cabinet would include Ken L and Dianne L I find it difficutl to think I would want to put the future of the country in his hands.
But then, that only makes him the worse of very very bad options. This country is in a very poor place right now, and is about to put itself willingly into a much worse one.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 3, 2017 21:31:20 GMT
That's fair comment bracknellboy, I consider Dennis Skinner and Tony Benn to be principled, even where I have disagreed with the positions that they've taken. I'll strike out that comment in my post above. |
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Post by mrclondon on Jun 3, 2017 21:31:49 GMT
** Note, some of the following may offend. I apologise if it does, but I need to get it off my chest. I also expect somewhere between some and all of you to disagree with my views, but that's OK ** I find myself deeply disillusioned by the current state of the political landscape in the UK at the moment. [ ..... ] I'm going to go and get drunk. I understand exactly what you mean, even though I disagree (only) slightly with your analysis. One thing to bear in mind is that Corbyn & Farron were elected to their leadership positions and both have only a limited number of MP's to choose from for front bench positions (libdems pure maths; labour limited by left wing a minority of PLP). May is leader because Johnston/Gove bottling it left no (realistic) alternative to be put to a ballot. Irrespective, May was undoubtably the right choice to glue the conservative party back together, but inevitably some of her choices for front bench positions were more for expediency in uniting the party than necessarily the best person for the role. I foresaw a dispiriting election campaign unfolding and decided to leave the country pronto* ... so I'm currently indulging in Tuscan wine, and largely ignoring the bleating politicos back home, and the bizarre games being played by the polling companies and some sections of the media which pretty much guarantees a "maximum" turnout by tory supporters. The cynic in me says some of what we are seeing is an attempt to engineer a sufficeintly passable performance (vote share) by Corbyn that he can continue until the party rules are changed to allow a left wing successor to be nominated. (i.e. give the illusion that the election is close, and the really safe labour seats will pile on yet more meaningless votes). * I will though be back in time to cast my vote, and the follow the excitement (sad old me ,  ) of the exit poll and results.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jun 4, 2017 6:43:53 GMT
The cynic in me says some of what we are seeing is an attempt to engineer a sufficeintly passable performance (vote share) by Corbyn that he can continue until the party rules are changed to allow a left wing successor to be nominated. (i.e. give the illusion that the election is close, and the really safe labour seats will pile on yet more meaningless votes). Indeed, I've a feeling Lynton Crosby could be pulling the strings of both campaigns 
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Jun 4, 2017 8:48:53 GMT
11 days after the election, Brexit talks start....
TM seems to baulk at a daily express headline. Her campaign has been focused on her but she refused to debate. The policy for social care, whilst not perfect is at least of the right order of magnitude to get the cash needed. The 'no deal is better than a bad deal' could be interesting.... as an example, all flights from U.K. To eu are via open skies, which we will leave in march 2019 without a new deal. WTO rules don't cover air flights. So we could literally have no flights to or from eu without a deal!
JC seems to believe that everything is possible and money is infinite. He does seem to want to address some issues which I agree with, such as compulsory zero hours contracts or nurses needing to use food banks. However I don't believe he is realistic enough and the state of finances after 5 years could be too close to Greece for my taste.
TF isn't going to win. Neither is the SNP, greens or UKIP. My hope is ukip get zero seats which combined with no MEPs (as we have left the eu) and the almost wipe out at local elections, removes them from the list of major parties for the next election so off QT, debates etc.
So, no major party aligns... my local constituency will vote labour. With enough of a majority that nothing I can do will change it.
i was going to finish with 'why bother to vote'. As I typed this, I've caught the news of Events in London which mean I WILL vote on Thursday even if it is just to say to the terrorists that you won't win.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 4, 2017 9:26:29 GMT
i was going to finish with 'why bother to vote'. As I typed this, I've caught the news of Events in London which mean I WILL vote on Thursday even if it is just to say to the terrorists that you won't win. Yeah I'm in a safe Labour seat, but the act of voting is important in and of itself. For me I think it will come down to whichever is greater, my fear of Corbyn's Labour (in which case I will vote Conservative), or my lack of belief in May and the current set of Tories (in which case I will spoil my vote).
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Post by dan1 on Jun 4, 2017 9:32:20 GMT
i was going to finish with 'why bother to vote'. As I typed this, I've caught the news of Events in London which mean I WILL vote on Thursday even if it is just to say to the terrorists that you won't win. I empathise with those who believe it is not worth voting, particularly given our electoral system however, I have always voted and would encourage everyone to exercise their right to vote. I fear that that in many respects the terrorists are already making headway - our political landscape in the west is in a process of change (think Trump, Brexit, rise of the far right in Europe, Ukraine, etc) and the terrorists appear to be acting as a catalyst.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 4, 2017 11:58:16 GMT
Do I not like general elections.
I've already voted, and am predicting our local MP will continue to wear a blue rosette. I get the impression that most of the other parties around here don't bother a lot. I remember one time I was cleaning the windows out front when a man walked down the driveway and put something through the letter box. I went to see what it was and found this little note with a Libdem logo saying we're sorry you weren't in when we called.
I'm not overly impressed by TM's performance since their manifesto was launched, but I would still prefer her to the financially illiterate JC (who in their right mind would trust Diane Abbott with control over anything). Despite the apparent improvement in the polls, Labour are still in disarray, as is evidenced by their position on renewing Trident. I can understand somebody saying we need to keep the deterrent, I can understand people saying it's obsolete given the current threats that we face. I can't for the life of me see the point in Labour wanting to spend £100bn to replace it when their leader would never push the button.
PS. does anyone know what has happened to Tom Watson?
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Jun 4, 2017 12:50:08 GMT
Do I not like general elections. I've already voted, and am predicting our local MP will continue to wear a blue rosette. I get the impression that most of the other parties around here don't bother a lot. I remember one time I was cleaning the windows out front when a man walked down the driveway and put something through the letter box. I went to see what it was and found this little note with a Libdem logo saying we're sorry you weren't in when we called. I'm not overly impressed by TM's performance since their manifesto was launched, but I would still prefer her to the financially illiterate JC (who in their right mind would trust Diane Abbott with control over anything). Despite the apparent improvement in the polls, Labour are still in disarray, as is evidenced by their position on renewing Trident. I can understand somebody saying we need to keep the deterrent, I can understand people saying it's obsolete given the current threats that we face. I can't for the life of me see the point in Labour wanting to spend £100bn to replace it when their leader would never push the button. PS. does anyone know what has happened to Tom Watson? Having given up on the National campaign as a lost cause, he's gone off to save his own skin in West Bromwich East (9k + majority last time) not wanting to become the next "Portillo/Balls" moment - one to watch out for on the night.
I'm in a solid Labour seat BUT it went heavily leave & I get the impression many lifelong Labour voters will lend TM their vote for this election to get a good Brexit negotiation team/result, as even die hard Labour voters can see the sort of job Diane Abbott, JC, Thornberry, McDonnell et al would make of it.
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Post by chielamangus on Jun 4, 2017 13:28:48 GMT
Seems many here would like to nail their colours to the mast but there's no mast worth nailing them to. I'm in that category but probably for different reasons than most. I am a political animal but have never joined any party, and have voted in the past Liberal, Plaid Cymru, Green, Conservative & UKIP (and even for some party I have completely forgotten about under the compulsory voting rules in Australia). Still a Labour virgin and that won't change this election. I also voted Leave in the Referendum because the issue for me was about sovereignty. And I voted UKIP in 2 elections just to get that referendum.
But who do I vote for now? May is no leader, Corbyn even less so. UKIP have achieved their objective and need to close down or morph into something else. Liberals are now the neo-fascists since they tolerate no opinion but their own, they have this overpowering belief that they are right and everyone else wrong - hence the necessity of a second referendum. The Greens are the new Reds, closely followed by Plaid (who I would not vote for now even if I still lived in Wales). As I think Brexit is the biggest issue facing the country, I suppose it will be a choice between the more intelligent of whatever Brexit leaning candidates there are in my constituency. Some choice! The apparently Brexit supporting Conservative here was actually a convinced remainer 12 months ago - funny how quickly their ideas change when promotion beckons - and the UKIP candidate has been conspicuous by his absence, so God know what he thinks, knows, understands. I may not even vote at all. A pox on this damned election!
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) of the exit poll and results.
