jamesc
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Post by jamesc on Apr 24, 2017 16:25:30 GMT
When I first joined SS over two years ago when they were first getting in to property backed lending it had a number of unique USP'S 1/ It was simple all loans at 12% so it did not price risk. 2/ INPL which was great and allowed one to invest quickly. 3/ A provision fund. 4/ A very liquid SM so if you needed funds quickly you could sell almost instantly.
As a result well over half of my P2P funds went to SS, however now every one of those USP'S have gone I am getting out but oh no 'I cant' ! Because other than a couple of loans I have no chance of selling unless I sit at the end of an unmoving queue owning no interest, when we complained about not being able to buys loans on the SM some 12 months ago we were told the primary reason for the SM was to provide liquidity to those wishing to sell loans! So much for that idea !!!!
At least on FS where I now have the largest part of my P2P funds if I want out I can discount my loan parts and they WILL sell.
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Post by lendinglawyer on Apr 24, 2017 16:39:35 GMT
It's frankly shocking that they are in breach of their own Ts&Cs which clearly state that you have an entitlement to sell any of your loan parts at any time at your discretion. I hope they resolve this promptly (after all, you invested in P2P, the investment that has the most guaranteed liquidity out there and where no one is expected to hold to term if they change their mind) and wish you the best.
#tongueincheek
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Apr 24, 2017 16:50:16 GMT
No platform should be treated or should be expected to perform like an Instant Access Savings A/C. LY have their faults, and I see genuine reasons to reduce and/ or exit, but liquidity is not one of them; you should invest with the expectation that you will hold your loans to maturity To maturity and beyond......................
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jamesc
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Post by jamesc on Apr 24, 2017 17:00:39 GMT
No platform should be treated or should be expected to perform like an Instant Access Savings A/C. LY have their faults, and I see genuine reasons to reduce and/ or exit, but liquidity is not one of them; you should invest with the expectation that you will hold your loans to maturity I cant understand that you can say lack of liquidity is not a reason for leaving. There is a mile of difference between an IAS and what we have now which is not wait a few days or a week to sell but basically there is NO prospect of selling over half the loans in a month or more. This is did not start as term investing, yes you should not invest in loans you are not prepared to hold for the term but you should have an expectation of being able to sell if you need funds and currently you do not so I would prefer to invest in sites where I can sell even dear old FC you can sell all you want if you offer at par or a small discount
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jamesc
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Post by jamesc on Apr 24, 2017 17:05:03 GMT
It's frankly shocking that they are in breach of their own Ts&Cs which clearly state that you have an entitlement to sell any of your loan parts at any time at your discretion. I hope they resolve this promptly (after all, you invested in P2P, the investment that has the most guaranteed liquidity out there and where no one is expected to hold to term if they change their mind) and wish you the best. #tongueincheek Its not a question of changing ones mind its about being able to access ones money if you need this is not term investing, SS did offer that at the start and you received a premium. What I am saying which all of you fail to grasp that because they don't offer the ability to discount parts they have stopped the SM from being a market.
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Apr 24, 2017 17:12:59 GMT
I've decided that I might actually hold some loans to the bitter end. <shock> Super-liquid SM was handy but even my simple mind realised it was unsustainable. Now, more DD required... Not only are the parcels being passed around, but some of them are ticking.
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username
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Post by username on Apr 24, 2017 17:15:25 GMT
It's very frustrating - given the current tempo of origination, LY are changing the *de facto* investment model without any notice or clear guidance on their plans. Paul64 what are your thoughts on the state of the SM? Presumably LY see an extremely liquid SM as a sign of not enough supply and too much demand? Clearly demand will eventually be sated - is an illiquid SM the target equilibrium? If so, are there plans to remove the SM and move to a fixed term model for all investors? |
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Post by moonshine on Apr 24, 2017 17:15:39 GMT
I think everyone needs to put this into perspective and realise that there are clear reasons why this current glut has happened. Simply, they are:
1) No significant repayments this month
2) Quite a few new loans have been issued, and
2b) An old loan has 'rolled' into a new loan without actually repaying yet (annoying).
That simple combination = a clogged up SM. A few repayments and an interest run = a liquid SM again. Feast/famine as usual.
That said, I'm with you in being cautious about the situation endlessly getting worse, and it needs to be monitored closely over the next few months. If Lendy keep issuing new loans willy nilly, and the new loans vastly outstrip the repayments then a saturation point will be reached and exceeded, and after that the SM will become relatively pointless.
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baz657
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Post by baz657 on Apr 24, 2017 17:19:26 GMT
Instant withdrawls or returns up to 12%. Just because it's "been so" in the past doesn't mean it always will be. Assetz are offering instant withdrawls (with conditions which state that if you want to withdraw it may not be as instant as you wish) at 3.75%. The old saying is so true... you can't have your cake and eat it.
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Post by lendinglawyer on Apr 24, 2017 17:22:07 GMT
I think everyone needs to put this into perspective and realise that there are clear reasons why this current glut has happened. Simply, they are: 1) No significant repayments this month 2) Quite a few new loans have been issued, and 2b) An old loan has 'rolled' into a new loan without actually repaying yet (annoying). That simple combination = a clogged up SM. A few repayments and an interest run = a liquid SM again. Feast/famine as usual. That said, I'm with you in being cautious about the situation endlessly getting worse, and it needs to be monitored closely over the next few months. If Lendy keep issuing new loans willy nilly, and the new loans vastly outstrip the repayments then a saturation point will be reached and exceeded, and after that the SM will become relatively pointless. I agree completely. To my mind, the biggest issue that Lendy faces right now is trying to grow too quickly. Many companies have been there before, and it's risky to say the least. I think they need to slow things down a bit, but that doesn't seem to be their strategy. If anyone disagrees with this strategy then they are certainly right to roll back their investing through Lendy. EDIT: username actually in all of their emails they've been very clear that they are looking to substantially increase the pace of new business. An entirely logical effect of this will be to slow down SM sales, as people prefer newer loan parts which are further from "default" (in the Lendy sense), rightly or wrongly. I don't think they've made any secret of that. The SM was pretty liquid not too long ago (and certainly since they started talking about far more business) so you could easily have sold out by now if you didn't like the new strategy.
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username
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Post by username on Apr 24, 2017 17:25:46 GMT
I think everyone needs to put this into perspective and realise that there are clear reasons why this current glut has happened. Simply, they are: 1) No significant repayments this month 2) Quite a few new loans have been issued, and 2b) An old loan has 'rolled' into a new loan without actually repaying yet (annoying). That simple combination = a clogged up SM. A few repayments and an interest run = a liquid SM again. Feast/famine as usual. That said, I'm with you in being cautious about the situation endlessly getting worse, and it needs to be monitored closely over the next few months. If Lendy keep issuing new loans willy nilly, and the new loans vastly outstrip the repayments then a saturation point will be reached and exceeded, and after that the SM will become relatively pointless. All those reasons are a result of the way Lendy is currently running the platform. We're up to 2.8 million on the SM now and transaction volumes are looking low - clearly we're at the limit of investor demand. What I want to know is - do they see this as a cockup - too much dumped at one time, or should we expect this to be the new norm? Maybe they won't see this as a problem if new money keeps appearing to pickup the pipeline loans, but if they're expecting to max out investor appetite constantly then there is no point in having an SM.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 24, 2017 17:28:06 GMT
If you list most of your parts for sale on Sunday, I'll hazard a guess that most will have sold within the week. Depending what you hold, many will probably sell on Monday.
(If I had an extra 1% for every time the Lendy/SavingStream SM has swung from famine to feast and back, I'd be doing very nicely indeed!)
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username
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Post by username on Apr 24, 2017 17:29:40 GMT
EDIT: username actually in all of their emails they've been very clear that they are looking to substantially increase the pace of new business. An entirely logical effect of this will be to slow down SM sales, as people prefer newer loan parts which are further from "default" (in the Lendy sense), rightly or wrongly. I don't think they've made any secret of that. The SM was pretty liquid not too long ago (and certainly since they started talking about far more business) so you could easily have sold out by now if you didn't like the new strategy. Yeah fair point, but it's a bit implicit to go from 'growing the business' to 'forcing investors to hold to term'. I really would like to know what value they place on a liquid SM, and what the lack of that liquidity will do to incoming cash flow.
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mary
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Post by mary on Apr 24, 2017 17:52:51 GMT
Instant withdrawls or returns up to 12%. Just because it's "been so" in the past doesn't mean it always will be. Assetz are offering instant withdrawls (with conditions which state that if you want to withdraw it may not be as instant as you wish) at 3.75%. The old saying is so true... you can't have your cake and eat it. Too true! Tried it at Assetz, failed. I got back 90% in about a week, 98% in a month and still have a few pennies invested several months later. This is because the loans underneath have defaulted. I was just fortunate that the 20% that had auto invested in a single loan was not the one to default! There is no such thing as perfection.
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ben
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Post by ben on Apr 24, 2017 17:55:58 GMT
I think your post should be why I am leaving p2p as you appear to want everything but not accept any risk. There is a reason why people pay the rates that Lendy charge and that is not because there are all great borroweres with a stellar history.
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