cedarcourtcapital
Member of DD Central
Listening is not the same as understanding
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Mar 6, 2020 23:50:52 GMT
Anyone feel this going to end well?
Can anyone disagree that this sums up the situation. We have a borrower who appears not to have half a month's interest to rub together, who has an unfinished project, whose financing has run out, and accruing unpaid interest, and is now dependant on lender goodwill to stop it having to be sold at a fire sale price, which may or may not pay off the capital and interest. Who wants to test the 'professional' valuation?
As the 'goodwill' in the above summation, I am personally in favour of ending matters. I did not lender to be a 'lender of last resort', willing to continue to fund a project which gone well off the rails.
Unfortunately I probably have to concede that if MT did 'get tough' and foreclose, then litigation would probably follow as the borrower fights to stop MT selling his asset/project, so depriving him of his profit. It could be argued that if the borrower has no funds to pay the interest then how could they fund any litigation, but I feel they would find the funds for litigation from somewhere! Now if this happened where would MT get the funds to fund their side of the litigation?
I believe MT will 'kick the can' again because to them, without any 'skin in the game' unlike us borrowers, kicking the can provides their best chance of a positive outcome. However for me, lenders interests and MT's do not align. They may for those do not want to cut our losses, but for those that do, like me, they do not. I am struggling to feel that this situation will end positively (unfortunately).
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Mar 7, 2020 6:36:12 GMT
Anyone feel this going to end well? Can anyone disagree that this sums up the situation. We have a borrower who appears not to have half a month's interest to rub together, who has an unfinished project, whose financing has run out, and accruing unpaid interest, and is now dependant on lender goodwill to stop it having to be sold at a fire sale price, which may or may not pay off the capital and interest. Who wants to test the 'professional' valuation? As the 'goodwill' in the above summation, I am personally in favour of ending matters. I did not lender to be a 'lender of last resort', willing to continue to fund a project which gone well off the rails. Unfortunately I probably have to concede that if MT did 'get tough' and foreclose, then litigation would probably follow as the borrower fights to stop MT selling his asset/project, so depriving him of his profit. It could be argued that if the borrower has no funds to pay the interest then how could they fund any litigation, but I feel they would find the funds for litigation from somewhere! Now if this happened where would MT get the funds to fund their side of the litigation? I believe MT will 'kick the can' again because to them, without any 'skin in the game' unlike us borrowers, kicking the can provides their best chance of a positive outcome. However for me, lenders interests and MT's do not align. They may for those do not want to cut our losses, but for those that do, like me, they do not. I am struggling to feel that this situation will end positively (unfortunately). I’ll let it run as long as we keep getting interest. Have to admit I’m not sure how many months behind we are at the moment
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Post by funkymonkey on Mar 7, 2020 7:20:14 GMT
We're awaiting November's interest
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criston
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Post by criston on Mar 7, 2020 9:54:40 GMT
Anyone feel this going to end well? Can anyone disagree that this sums up the situation. We have a borrower who appears not to have half a month's interest to rub together, who has an unfinished project, whose financing has run out, and accruing unpaid interest, and is now dependant on lender goodwill to stop it having to be sold at a fire sale price, which may or may not pay off the capital and interest. Who wants to test the 'professional' valuation? As the 'goodwill' in the above summation, I am personally in favour of ending matters. I did not lender to be a 'lender of last resort', willing to continue to fund a project which gone well off the rails. Unfortunately I probably have to concede that if MT did 'get tough' and foreclose, then litigation would probably follow as the borrower fights to stop MT selling his asset/project, so depriving him of his profit. It could be argued that if the borrower has no funds to pay the interest then how could they fund any litigation, but I feel they would find the funds for litigation from somewhere! Now if this happened where would MT get the funds to fund their side of the litigation? I believe MT will 'kick the can' again because to them, without any 'skin in the game' unlike us borrowers, kicking the can provides their best chance of a positive outcome. However for me, lenders interests and MT's do not align. They may for those do not want to cut our losses, but for those that do, like me, they do not. I am struggling to feel that this situation will end positively (unfortunately). Surely under the terms & conditions MT have a right to sell it off; the borrower has continually defaulted. It appears the FS administrators have been auctioning off defaulted loans without hindrance. I assume MT do not need to find funds; surely it would come out of the proceeds much like when a solicitor deals with a house sale. An auction valuation is the most important criteria for lenders.
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cedarcourtcapital
Member of DD Central
Listening is not the same as understanding
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Mar 7, 2020 10:44:35 GMT
Check out Wandsworth for an example of MT's power to sell a defaulted property if the borrower objects.
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criston
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Post by criston on Mar 7, 2020 12:53:36 GMT
Planning application number search comes up with 15-05-2017, so 3 years will be 15/5/20 before lapsing.
There was a later application, but no decision shown.
I have posted application numbers on DD.
MT must be aware. Work may need to start & quick, unless a later planning permission is applicable.
Thing is I have little to lose in this loan, but some out there must have substantial amounts.
Why is everyone so laid back.
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cedarcourtcapital
Member of DD Central
Listening is not the same as understanding
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Mar 7, 2020 14:13:16 GMT
Planning application number search comes up with 15-05-2017, so 3 years will be 15/5/20 before lapsing. There was a later application, but no decision shown. I have posted application numbers on DD. MT must be aware. Work may need to start & quick, unless a later planning permission is applicable. Thing is I have little to lose in this loan, but some out there must have substantial amounts. Why is everyone so laid back. Possibly because most people know there really is little a lender can do to influence outcomes, other than cross your fingers and hope!
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criston
Member of DD Central
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Post by criston on Mar 7, 2020 14:25:29 GMT
Planning application number search comes up with 15-05-2017, so 3 years will be 15/5/20 before lapsing. There was a later application, but no decision shown. I have posted application numbers on DD. MT must be aware. Work may need to start & quick, unless a later planning permission is applicable. Thing is I have little to lose in this loan, but some out there must have substantial amounts. Why is everyone so laid back. Possibly because most people know there really is little a lender can do to influence outcomes, other than cross your fingers and hope! That's the trouble these days. Too many people are complacent & resigned to their fate. If I had a large amount in this I would be emailing & telephoning. In fact I have several times, showing my disgust. Surely some people must be putting pressure on MT. Assetz have lender votes for this sort of thing.
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Mar 7, 2020 14:33:32 GMT
Possibly because most people know there really is little a lender can do to influence outcomes, other than cross your fingers and hope! That's the trouble these days. Too many people are complacent & resigned to their fate.If I had a large amount in this I would be emailing & telephoning. In fact I have several times, showing my disgust. Surely some people must be putting pressure on MT. Assetz having lender votes for this sort of thing. Couldn't agree more. There's a tendency with P2P Lenders to just accept things (" That's the way it is."), roll over, and take it.  [ Sorry, apologies. I'm V aware I'm guilty of repeating this mantra, so will honestly try to cease & desist.  ]
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criston
Member of DD Central
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Post by criston on Mar 7, 2020 15:14:58 GMT
Let's have a go at rough costings. Ex surveyor here, out of touch.
10520 sqm floor area @ build cost of £1500 sqm. (Valuation suggests £1323 sqm)
Build cost £15,780,000. (Valuation suggests £21,000,000 inclusive of professional fees, extracted from a tendering process)
Finance average over 4 years, £4million to £20 million @ 12% £5.76m, (Valuation suggests £1,278,023 )
Developer profit say 25% of sales value £9.5m (Valuation suggests less at £7,623,650)
2017 Sales value or GDV £38,118,250
Leaves £7 million for the land & any other sundry costs. (Valuation suggests £13000 per dwelling, hence £4m security)
What are we waiting for? What is the difficulty with refinancing or selling on?
Note. I picked up the valuation figures after I did my own, as I did not realise they were already available.
The finance appears too low, but it is as broad as it is long. The profit figure is certainly some buffer.
If & when arrears are paid, the borrower would have paid approaching £1 million in interest payments.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Mar 7, 2020 16:46:42 GMT
Planning application number search comes up with 15-05-2017, so 3 years will be 15/5/20 before lapsing. There was a later application, but no decision shown. I have posted application numbers on DD. MT must be aware. Work may need to start & quick, unless a later planning permission is applicable. Thing is I have little to lose in this loan, but some out there must have substantial amounts. Why is everyone so laid back. Site demolition and clearance has been done already (since the loan drew down) so construction will be deemed underway.
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Post by siggy74 on Mar 7, 2020 17:08:45 GMT
If the development has not commenced within three years, the permission will be considered to have expired, and if the Borrower still wished to proceed with the development, they will need to renew the application.
If however, the conditions under which the original permission was granted have changed, it may be necessary to make a fresh application.
Once the development has commenced, the permission remains in place unless the local authority serve a completion notice.
And if such a notice is served, the development must then be completed within 12 months.
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Mar 7, 2020 18:27:09 GMT
Possibly because most people know there really is little a lender can do to influence outcomes, other than cross your fingers and hope! That's the trouble these days. Too many people are complacent & resigned to their fate. If I had a large amount in this I would be emailing & telephoning. In fact I have several times, showing my disgust. Surely some people must be putting pressure on MT. Assetz have lender votes for this sort of thing. More than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes....I’ve had a dialogue with MT in a civilised manner..but not felt it necessary to “show my disgust” by having a rant...each to their own
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criston
Member of DD Central
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Post by criston on Mar 7, 2020 18:43:17 GMT
That's the trouble these days. Too many people are complacent & resigned to their fate. If I had a large amount in this I would be emailing & telephoning. In fact I have several times, showing my disgust. Surely some people must be putting pressure on MT. Assetz have lender votes for this sort of thing. More than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes....I’ve had a dialogue with MT in a civilised manner..but not felt it necessary to “show my disgust” by having a rant...each to their own Agreed. Ranting gets you nowhere.
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cedarcourtcapital
Member of DD Central
Listening is not the same as understanding
Posts: 190
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Mar 8, 2020 10:05:28 GMT
averageguy.... Do you believe your telephone calls did anything positive towards either expediting or at least progressing the outcome of any default? I ask that seriously. It was my understanding that MT did not disclose anything to lenders in private communications. Although given where their platform is now, with no secondary market for any 'inside' information to be of benefit, there would seem other than common decency to all lenders, no reason for MT staff not to speak openly and honestly over the telephone. Did you gleam anything germane in your telephone chat(s)? I also hope that your above post does not have an effect I do not believe you intended. By advocating 'another way to skin a cat', might more disgruntled lenders take to telephone MT to express their dissatisfaction. Each to their own I am sure most people agree, and if a lender wants to 'rant', for me, it's better done here in a semi controlled manner, rather than down the telephone to MT. I wonder how many telephone calls from irate lenders MT have had to terminate [rhetorical]. We all want the same thing, as much of the money we are owed repaid to us. We just disagree on how much influence we have in the process.
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