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Post by eascogo on Dec 27, 2016 20:59:45 GMT
This loan on a grand Scottish property is for renewal, with a small increase to complete refurbishment. Security is on a 2nd charge with LTV 57.2%. Exit is not mentioned as far as I can see. I assume this will be through sale of the property. Finding a wealthy buyer may take a while. I am gambling by throwing a large punt on this. Have others researched this loan?
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Dec 28, 2016 14:22:16 GMT
Not done much research as I only invested a small amount. Basically trusted LTV on original loan as given by FS. As it's so near the famous golf course it seems likely a sale could be achieved (to a wealthy keen golfer). I do know 1 person who would be interested if it came up for sale so that gave me confidence.
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Post by mrclondon on Aug 3, 2017 13:25:07 GMT
This loan is now on its 2nd renewal, and 12 months on from the original loan I've just re-examined my due diligence. I've never been in this loan, and will remain out based on today's research. (Strangely I can't find an existing thread for this unusual loan.)
The original loan was a total of £470k across 2 tranches, the first renewal (combining the tranches) was for £530k (+£60k), and the current renewal £610k (+£80k). It seems a reasonable guess that interest and fees are being rolled up. Its a 2nd charge loan behind £900k, so the total debt is now £1.51m (vs £1.37m at the time of the original loan), assuming the first charge loan is up to date.
At the time of the original loan it was a shell property with water damage, and the photos attached to the valuation report looked grim, but the property is now more or less finished, and the current batch of photos seem to show a good job has been done. I think it is plot 3, which was last sold for £1.1m in 2008, and at a guess that was land only. The property is 5 bed plus loft room, extending to 9,126 sq feet on a 0.5 acre plot.
This entire development of individual architect designed properties appears to have been "tough going" from the off, with I suspect the root cause being vastly inflated land prices in the mid 2000's. Some of the plots have changed hands as part completed shells, or land only. Few finished properties have been sold making valuations difficult. Attempting to independently value the water damaged shell property 12 months ago was close to impossible, but plot 13 (similar size) sold as a shell property for £0.86m in Sept 2014. It felt to me the fire sale value at the time of the original loan 12 months ago was well below the combined debt.
The VR comparables (section 17) lists a property called Q****** V*** (which I believe is plot 11) as being for sale offers over £1.3m (to be completed). However the rightmove listings and photos of 2014 (£1.3m) and 2016 (£1.25m) imply the property is predominately finished, and is not a shell. The sale appears to have completed Dec 2016 for £1.2m. This is a 5 bed property, extending to 7,395 sq feet on a 0.55 acre plot. Plot 6 sold for £2.2m in July 2016.
Q****** V*** is a slightly smaller property than "ours", and probably a slightly inferior plot (closer to neighbouring properties over rear fence). Plot 6 is a better plot (overlooks golf course) and I suspect is a marginally bigger plot and property.
I've been unable to find any direct evidence to support the suggested valuation of £3.25m (or the FS "conservative" £3m), and personally I think £1.5m to £2m a more realistic range. A 90 day marketing period valuation could well be lower than the combined debt.
Interestingly the borrower's current intent is to attempt to let the property, and then with evidence of rental income switch to a BTL mortgage. Hmm, I suspect that is not going to be an easy strategy, and possibly indicates the borrower has doubts about the current achievable sale price for the property. In the meantime with FS presumably rolling up interest and fees, the borrower isn't feeling the real pain of the debt.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Aug 3, 2017 18:29:11 GMT
This loan is now on its 2nd renewal, and 12 months on from the original loan I've just re-examined my due diligence. I've never been in this loan, and will remain out based on today's research. (Strangely I can't find an existing thread for this unusual loan.) The original loan was a total of £470k across 2 tranches, the first renewal (combining the tranches) was for £530k (+£60k), and the current renewal £610k (+£80k). It seems a reasonable guess that interest and fees are being rolled up. Its a 2nd charge loan behind £900k, so the total debt is now £1.51m (vs £1.37m at the time of the original loan), assuming the first charge loan is up to date. At the time of the original loan it was a shell property with water damage, and the photos attached to the valuation report looked grim, but the property is now more or less finished, and the current batch of photos seem to show a good job has been done. I think it is plot 3, which was last sold for £1.1m in 2008, and at a guess that was land only. The property is 5 bed plus loft room, extending to 9,126 sq feet on a 0.5 acre plot. This entire development of individual architect designed properties appears to have been "tough going" from the off, with I suspect the root cause being vastly inflated land prices in the mid 2000's. Some of the plots have changed hands as part completed shells, or land only. Few finished properties have been sold making valuations difficult. Attempting to independently value the water damaged shell property 12 months ago was close to impossible, but plot 13 (similar size) sold as a shell property for £0.86m in Sept 2014. It felt to me the fire sale value at the time of the original loan 12 months ago was well below the combined debt. The VR comparables (section 17) lists a property called Q****** V*** (which I believe is plot 11) as being for sale offers over £1.3m (to be completed). However the rightmove listings and photos of 2014 (£1.3m) and 2016 (£1.25m) imply the property is predominately finished, and is not a shell. The sale appears to have completed Dec 2016 for £1.2m. This is a 5 bed property, extending to 7,395 sq feet on a 0.55 acre plot. Plot 6 sold for £2.2m in July 2016. Q****** V*** is a slightly smaller property than "ours", and probably a slightly inferior plot (closer to neighbouring properties over rear fence). Plot 6 is a better plot (overlooks golf course) and I suspect is a marginally bigger plot and property. I've been unable to find any direct evidence to support the suggested valuation of £3.25m (or the FS "conservative" £3m), and personally I think £1.5m to £2m a more realistic range. A 90 day marketing period valuation could well be lower than the combined debt. Interestingly the borrower's current intent is to attempt to let the property, and then with evidence of rental income switch to a BTL mortgage. Hmm, I suspect that is not going to be an easy strategy, and possibly indicates the borrower has doubts about the current achievable sale price for the property. In the meantime with FS presumably rolling up interest and fees, the borrower isn't feeling the real pain of the debt.No, the Investors are, the mental pain!
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steve11523
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Post by steve11523 on Jan 24, 2018 15:30:16 GMT
Loan being reviewed for £671,000 up from £610,000 in July. The narrative is the same as in July 2017 ie. refurb complete and a buy-to-let tenant being sought - something of a surprise that things have not moved in six months.
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mariner
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Post by mariner on Jan 24, 2018 15:59:59 GMT
Ah, but is it for £671000 or £666000
"The loan is for £666,000, secured by a second legal charge on a property valued at £3m."
FS's carelessness frankly astounds me
No wonder they have so many late & defaulted loans
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james21
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Post by james21 on Jan 24, 2018 16:09:55 GMT
Delighted its renewing but I wont be. Second charge; I have now learned my lesson............no second charges
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Post by eascogo on Jan 24, 2018 17:38:30 GMT
Loan being reviewed for £671,000 up from £610,000 in July. The narrative is the same as in July 2017 ie. refurb complete and a buy-to-let tenant being sought - something of a surprise that things have not moved in six months. This loan initiated in May 2016 for £414,000 and now being put renewed for the third time for £671,000. The increase probably just about pays interest and fees. With a first charge of £900,000 this loan must may well be approaching the fire-sale value suggested by mrclondon in this same thread. I had a large punt in this loan but lost my nerve and sold last year at a discount whilst also giving up the bonus.
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johnfleet
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Post by johnfleet on Jan 25, 2018 22:28:22 GMT
Are we talking about the Gleneagles loan which repaid 14 per cent (13 per cent plus 1 per cent bonus) after five months? Given all the negativity about FS I'm withdrawing my capital and a very nice amount of interest to invest in somewhere less 'interesting'
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Post by eascogo on Jan 25, 2018 23:17:39 GMT
Are we talking about the Gleneagles loan which repaid 14 per cent (13 per cent plus 1 per cent bonus) after five months? Given all the negativity about FS I'm withdrawing my capital and a very nice amount of interest to invest in somewhere less 'interesting' Yes, johnfleet here is the history. initiall loan - 06/05/2016 - loan 2227407628 - £414,000 1st renewal - 31/05/2016 - loan 2230942901 - £56,000 renewed 2nd renewal - 24/12/2016 - loan 1841601622 - £530,000 renewed 3rd renewal - 28/07/2017 - loan 2758506057 - £610,000 renewal ongoing 4th renewal - imminent - loan 7464882664 - £671,000
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coop
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Post by coop on Jun 26, 2019 15:27:28 GMT
Well this one has ran aground in a rather familiar and predictable way. They've been allowed to repeatedly roll up interest without paying and now it's looking like they don't have a plan to repay the debt. They've lent out just under £700k now and that's after a £900k first charge; and they have had it marketed nationally for a long time at £3m with no real interest.
Being generous and assuming the £900k doesn't have any outstanding interest they need to recoup about £1.74m after legal and other fees in order to repay capital and interest. I have no idea what a realistic price for a property like this but it seems £3m wasn't close so maybe £2m ish?
It's also another example of despite being due to finish a year ago and seemingly admitting the borrower doesnt have a "solid proposal for repayment" they still won't default the loan.
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p2ploser
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Post by p2ploser on Jun 26, 2019 17:32:22 GMT
I’m puzzled by the statement in the pointless update that says “Until we have solid evidence from the Borrower or his Broker of a solid proposal for repayment, we will continue to establish our position and provide further updates accordingly.” especially the bit about “establish our position”. What does that mean on a loan nearly a year overdue? Meaningless nonsense.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Jun 26, 2019 17:48:31 GMT
This one is being developed by a famous ex-footballer who put his money into property over the years- good lad! However bit puzzled why he needs a FS loan as he has or had substantial other assets.
I can't find it up for sale - it looks very nice and done to a very high standard - maybe a rich American golf fan or similar will buy it. Hopefully this one can still come good but I am glad I am not in it...
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jcm9000
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Post by jcm9000 on Jun 27, 2019 6:34:49 GMT
I’m puzzled by the statement in the pointless update that says “Until we have solid evidence from the Borrower or his Broker of a solid proposal for repayment, we will continue to establish our position and provide further updates accordingly.” especially the bit about “establish our position”. What does that mean on a loan nearly a year overdue? Meaningless nonsense. It's complete drivel, isn't it? As for an ex-fitba player, that bunch tend to run out of money rather quickly once they hit 40..... I'm in this one for a bit - I've driven past the street a few times when out for a sunday drive, it's in the middle of nowhere in reality; an American golf fan would simply stay at Gleneagles though..... If i had the money I'd look at it, but I don't, and to be honest if I did and I was buying up there, especially at that price, I'd not want any neighbours. Tough market! Maybe FS would give me a loan and I can hide in the games room until they go away...... At least the commute to Glasgow/Edinburgh isn't too bad from it - couple of mins more than what I do from not far outside Stirling; and the wee, far more reasonably priced housing estate next door, seems to have done ok. Just finding that person willing to part with 3 large.... Also consider each plot sold for 800k-£1.1m ish (public record in the local news up here). Do we thnk someone would pay £2m over that vs buying another £1m plot of land somewhere and building it themselves for a cost that I will leave you to imagine. Less than £2m build? That'll be your eventual sale price in your head, and I do think it will eventually sell for a decent amount over what the plot was bought for...surely....you would think....(not looking at other disasters around here.....).
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coop
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Post by coop on Jun 27, 2019 10:09:33 GMT
This one is being developed by a famous ex-footballer who put his money into property over the years- good lad! However bit puzzled why he needs a FS loan as he has or had substantial other assets. I can't find it up for sale - it looks very nice and done to a very high standard - maybe a rich American golf fan or similar will buy it. Hopefully this one can still come good but I am glad I am not in it... It's currently not for sale! It was up for £3m for a long time so they're considering their options on how best/what price to market it at next...
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