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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 8:53:55 GMT
Socially and morally this investment is worth nothing, it merely burns electricity to make something of no inherent value, I will not be lending.
No, I'm not looking for an argument. Just my views.
As always, good luck to those who invest.
I think I agree with you but couldn't you say the same about say gold? I guess gold has some uses but none that justify its high value which is based (I think) almost entirely on its difficulty of mining due to its limited availability. I think you make a good point until you look at say the electronics industry where gold is used. The vast majority of gold is held in gov vaults, which is due to a long history of "value", see also Gordon Brown giving ours away. I see blockchain as having a value, I see crypto having less value then say black tulips that once destroyed the Dutch economy.
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Post by Proptechfish on Mar 9, 2019 9:01:04 GMT
From Abl's point of view you not only have the security,LTV etc mentioned by people willing to invest but from a main stream point of view you are comparing Two of the pet hates of the finance press P2P & Bitcoin or crypto which is probably not helping this loan.Imagine going on the MSE forum and saying you are about to invest in Bitcoin mining via a P2p platform and the replies you would get would be interesting and that could be the hurdle for this loan to get over I couldn't agree more. Media coverage in the West and UK specifically has been way too negative towards Crypto, but in contrast Asia are light years ahead us in understanding, accepting and utilizing Crypto. I have however conceded defeat on backing this loan in recognition that not enough of the crowd in a UK market get it. Too soon.
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 9, 2019 10:02:53 GMT
But we are not asked to be equity partners. We are lenders, Asset Backed Lenders. The more risky the business proposition, the more secure the assets pledged should be. That balance just requires attention, imo.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Mar 9, 2019 16:51:45 GMT
Wow , this daughter's in. No risk of phossy jaw mining crypto.
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 9, 2019 17:23:41 GMT
Wow , this daughter's in. No risk of phossy jaw mining crypto. In a cabin, in a canyon?
Do be careful. Don't fall into the foaming brine.
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Post by df on Mar 9, 2019 18:16:20 GMT
... So based on this thread alone, I think this is the 1st Ablerate offering to be universally rejected. depends what you mean by "universally rejected" but certainly not the first loan to struggle to get traction from lenders. reminds me of 1000091 in terms of it striking me as more of an equity proposition. not considered it myself seriously because I try not to invest in stuff I don't understand but that's not to denigrate the enormous work that Ablrate have put into preparing this opportunity, I welcome the fact that they attempt to break the mould even if I'm too chicken at times to jump aboard, keep it up. in terms of the security, or lack of, I did wonder whether this was tilted too much in favour of the borrower - why risk the wealth you've worked hard to build, or perhaps it's as simple as having nothing liquid enough or not already committed in one way or another. Under 10% invested so far - suggests to me that this loan is very likely to have the same outcome as "weird boats" unless underwritten. Good for investors who likes cashing in on instant returns. There were also few of those on FS and MT in the past.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 20:25:54 GMT
Bitcoin may have a limited supply, but cryptocurrency in general certainly does not.
It seems that everyone and their dog has their own sh!tcoin cryptocurrency these days.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 9, 2019 20:51:48 GMT
At least with gold, silver, copper, etc. there is a limited set of elements to choose from, and a fixed amount of each in the immediate vicinity. With crypto there are as many as people care to define ... wanna get rich, define your own new one.
On the other hand, you CAN put an awful lot of crypto under your mattress. Just don't lose the index.
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Post by elephantrosie on Mar 10, 2019 18:43:09 GMT
is crypto more popular in Asia?
Also what is with the title that his daughter is in?
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Post by elephantrosie on Mar 10, 2019 18:47:15 GMT
after few days, still only 10% loan invested.
hmm.......
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Mar 10, 2019 21:56:26 GMT
depends what you mean by "universally rejected" but certainly not the first loan to struggle to get traction from lenders. reminds me of 1000091 in terms of it striking me as more of an equity proposition. not considered it myself seriously because I try not to invest in stuff I don't understand but that's not to denigrate the enormous work that Ablrate have put into preparing this opportunity, I welcome the fact that they attempt to break the mould even if I'm too chicken at times to jump aboard, keep it up. in terms of the security, or lack of, I did wonder whether this was tilted too much in favour of the borrower - why risk the wealth you've worked hard to build, or perhaps it's as simple as having nothing liquid enough or not already committed in one way or another. Under 10% invested so far - suggests to me that this loan is very likely to have the same outcome as "weird boats" unless underwritten. Good for investors who likes cashing in on instant returns. There were also few of those on FS and MT in the past. Always a risky business, hoping a loan doesn't fill to gain a bit of 'safe interest' you have to hope not to many do it and the loan accidentally fills. Ablrate left the underwriting issue a little vague which I guess is their prerogative. I wonder if floating the concept of 'unusual loans' on the platform prior to getting overly involved would be of benefit to them, or do they still have the 'secret testers' that seemed to be muted a while back? I'm guessing a bit longer will be given to see if sentiment changes, but curious to see if at some point it comes back remodeled and if so what they try to do with the existing bids, hopefully not attempt to simply 'roll in'. Seems to be the case on all platforms that loans get a small amount of investment regardless of the loans merits, I assume it is just a diversification process that some investors use and the loan is totally irrelevant.
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Post by Ace on Mar 10, 2019 22:34:40 GMT
Under 10% invested so far - suggests to me that this loan is very likely to have the same outcome as "weird boats" unless underwritten. Good for investors who likes cashing in on instant returns. There were also few of those on FS and MT in the past. Always a risky business, hoping a loan doesn't fill to gain a bit of 'safe interest' you have to hope not to many do it and the loan accidentally fills. Ablrate left the underwriting issue a little vague which I guess is their prerogative. I wonder if floating the concept of 'unusual loans' on the platform prior to getting overly involved would be of benefit to them, or do they still have the 'secret testers' that seemed to be muted a while back? I'm guessing a bit longer will be given to see if sentiment changes, but curious to see if at some point it comes back remodeled and if so what they try to do with the existing bids, hopefully not attempt to simply 'roll in'. Seems to be the case on all platforms that loans get a small amount of investment regardless of the loans merits, I assume it is just a diversification process that some investors use and the loan is totally irrelevant. Hmm... I agree that it's unlikely to fill as is, but I doubt it would be economically viable to underwrite. Surely underwriters would want more than ABLrate's fees for this one! My guess is that we'll see a restructure tomorrow, most likely to amortizing, and possibly at a higher rate. I'd be happy to support it to my usual meagre limits on that basis. Not sure I would on other platforms, but I've come to trust ABLrate more than others to handle loans that go wrong. I think it would be ok to roll existing bids in, as long as none of the terms were downgraded, but may be contractually difficult to do that.
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Mar 10, 2019 22:41:51 GMT
When we put the loan together initially, we looked at the amortisation of the loan against the value of the processing units. The PG that we have is on the back on an 8 figure net asset statement, so we are comfortable... However, we are going to review this with the borrower and see if we can put amortisation, in some form, back on the table. Thanks for your feedback, we will let you know. Just quoting this from Thursday. Perhaps a job for this coming week. Amortisation (as such) would mean a new launch. Nothing wrong with improving the lending proposition. Edit: Did not see Ace's post, but we agree. Ablrate has already said what will be done with this, but forum posts are soon buried.
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Post by df on Mar 11, 2019 10:54:06 GMT
Always a risky business, hoping a loan doesn't fill to gain a bit of 'safe interest' you have to hope not to many do it and the loan accidentally fills. Ablrate left the underwriting issue a little vague which I guess is their prerogative. I wonder if floating the concept of 'unusual loans' on the platform prior to getting overly involved would be of benefit to them, or do they still have the 'secret testers' that seemed to be muted a while back? I'm guessing a bit longer will be given to see if sentiment changes, but curious to see if at some point it comes back remodeled and if so what they try to do with the existing bids, hopefully not attempt to simply 'roll in'. Seems to be the case on all platforms that loans get a small amount of investment regardless of the loans merits, I assume it is just a diversification process that some investors use and the loan is totally irrelevant. Hmm... I agree that it's unlikely to fill as is, but I doubt it would be economically viable to underwrite. Surely underwriters would want more than ABLrate's fees for this one! My guess is that we'll see a restructure tomorrow, most likely to amortizing, and possibly at a higher rate. I'd be happy to support it to my usual meagre limits on that basis. Not sure I would on other platforms, but I've come to trust ABLrate more than others to handle loans that go wrong. I think it would be ok to roll existing bids in, as long as none of the terms were downgraded, but may be contractually difficult to do that. I guess this is a subject to negotiation with the borrower. I'd be happy to double my contribution if it was amotrised. Slightly higher rate won't make difference to the amount I invest. Similar to you - if this loan was offered by some other platform (FS, for example) I would give it a miss. My trust to platform is important for me when making investment decisions.
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seb8072
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Post by seb8072 on Mar 13, 2019 16:38:54 GMT
I think Ablrate should be applauded for bringing a new loan from a new borrower to the platform, particularly one that is so novel. However, given the comments in the recent Webcast regarding security and the "Free one for some of the other platforms" I am disappointed to read under the Valuation of Security "No formal valuation of the equipment has been carried out....". I really think Ablrate could have done a lot better on this. I have too many burnt fingers from PGs. I would like to see rock solid security, I think first charge on the borrower's property has already been mentioned, amortization, and preferably a higher interest rate.
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