keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 15, 2019 16:19:31 GMT
thx mrk , Another thing that is surely as important as this involves the break up of the uk, then surely all in the union should have a voice not just Scotland. Although I'm not sure that will be unfavourable to Scotland. With the break from the EU and if scotland gets their break then I wonder how long it will be before the french start wading in. Hopefully we have learnt from 1000 years of history but I do wonder with scotland gone will the queen still be a resident in scotland. ?? the whole UK should have a vote on scots independence ( as opposed to scotch dependence which is a different thing altogether ) we had governments before based on the labour vote in Scotland. or we give them the Vote on a very specific condition, the SNP pay for it from their own funds not money from British government, ie the total cost printing papers, overseeing the vote, counting the vote and they fund equally the remain and leave votes. we all know the government tried to rig the Brexit referendum by sending us all a leaflet explaining why remain was better a couple of days before it counted as referendum spending.
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aju
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Post by aju on Dec 15, 2019 16:30:29 GMT
thx mrk , Another thing that is surely as important as this involves the break up of the uk, then surely all in the union should have a voice not just Scotland. Although I'm not sure that will be unfavourable to Scotland. With the break from the EU and if scotland gets their break then I wonder how long it will be before the french start wading in. Hopefully we have learnt from 1000 years of history but I do wonder with scotland gone will the queen still be a resident in scotland. ?? the whole UK should have a vote on scots independence ( as opposed to scotch dependence which is a different thing altogether ) we had governments before based on the labour vote in Scotland. or we give them the Vote on a very specific condition, the SNP pay for it from their own funds not money from British government, ie the total cost printing papers, overseeing the vote, counting the vote and they fund equally the remain and leave votes. we all know the government tried to rig the Brexit referendum by sending us all a leaflet explaining why remain was better a couple of days before it counted as referendum spending. Not much chance of me having scotch dependence thankfully can't stand that or whisky so i'm covered on that one. I wonder If I could get Mrs Aju to lend me one of her ancestors so we can vote against their release from this island. Just had an interesting thought now that Northern Ireland is on the "Island of Ireland" I wonder if Great Britain will soon be called the "Island of Great Britain".
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 15, 2019 17:02:10 GMT
the same remainers who don't understand the implications of the EU's TTIP deal that would put the NHS up for grabs TTIP was killed when Trump came into power. Trump walked away from the negotiations. Anyway, the reality of what it included for the NHS... fullfact.org/europe/does-ttip-mean-privatisation-nhs/...and that was with the EU in a far stronger negotiating position relative to the US than the UK is.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 15, 2019 17:08:57 GMT
the same remainers who don't understand the implications of the EU's TTIP deal that would put the NHS up for grabs TTIP was killed when Trump came into power. Trump walked away from the negotiations. Anyway, the reality of what it included for the NHS... fullfact.org/europe/does-ttip-mean-privatisation-nhs/...and that was with the EU in a far stronger negotiating position relative to the US than the UK is. and the next democrat leader in the US wont revive it ?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 15, 2019 17:10:25 GMT
and the next democrat leader in the US wont revive it ? And there was me, thinking that being able to make a trade deal between the US and UK was one of the benefits of Brexit.
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jo
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Post by jo on Dec 15, 2019 17:36:25 GMT
Scratch the surface of the some of the flags you see displayed at independence rallies and you'll find the Starry Plough skilfully concealed by an irritatingly efficient PR machine.
There's a certain trial upcoming in 2020 the fallout of which I'm not sure Sturgeon will survive - hence the present hasty media-blitz.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Dec 15, 2019 20:13:27 GMT
In ten years time, I'm pretty sure Scotland and Northern Ireland will not be in the United Kingdom. THe stripping back to England and Wales is the ultimate end of the decline of Britain as a first rate power. Oh well, that's history. In order to understand the near future though, chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-brexit-dystopia-bequeathed-by-this.html?m=1If you're thinking "I'm a Leaver so I won't read this", no, you should. You won the battle, face the consequences. Having read this as you think I should, what is difference to what I have read many times before? Just someones opinion, which might be right or wrong.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 16, 2019 8:28:10 GMT
In ten years time, I'm pretty sure Scotland and Northern Ireland will not be in the United Kingdom. THe stripping back to England and Wales is the ultimate end of the decline of Britain as a first rate power. Oh well, that's history. In order to understand the near future though, chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-brexit-dystopia-bequeathed-by-this.html?m=1If you're thinking "I'm a Leaver so I won't read this", no, you should. You won the battle, face the consequences. Having read this as you think I should, what is difference to what I have read many times before? Just someones opinion, which might be right or wrong. You're right. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed since the 2016 campaigning... The reality has just become ever more clear - at least, to those whose fingers aren't in their ears. Oh, well. BJ and crew have no alternative but to own the aftermath now.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 16, 2019 8:47:36 GMT
In ten years time, I'm pretty sure Scotland and Northern Ireland will not be in the United Kingdom. THe stripping back to England and Wales is the ultimate end of the decline of Britain as a first rate power. Oh well, that's history.
To be pedantic it's the future, not history. And an imagined future at that. If you're thinking "I'm a Leaver so I won't read this", no, you should. You won the battle, face the consequences.Leavers won the war but the battles of the past 3 years and the consequent damage to democracy, trust in our institutions and the economy would have been avoided if Remainers had accepted the democratic decision in the first place.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 16, 2019 9:58:14 GMT
Scratch the surface of the some of the flags you see displayed at independence rallies and you'll find the Starry Plough skilfully concealed by an irritatingly efficient PR machine. There's a certain trial upcoming in 2020 the fallout of which I'm not sure Sturgeon will survive - hence the present hasty media-blitz. So what is the legal situation regarding independence?
Scotland willingly joined the UK via the acts of union in 1706 / 1707 (in order to avoid almost certain bankruptcy following the ill fated Darien scheme). I don't suppose that there is a clause in the acts that allows Scotland to unilaterally leave, so I assume they would need to put forward a proposal to the rest of the UK regarding compensation that they would pay for the pleasure of leaving?
If they did become independent would all the Scottish people working south of the border have to return home?
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 16, 2019 10:47:08 GMT
and the next democrat leader in the US wont revive it ? And there was me, thinking that being able to make a trade deal between the US and UK was one of the benefits of Brexit. not for me !
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Dec 16, 2019 17:25:56 GMT
Within Scotland the SNP got 45% of the vote, so their huge majority in terms of FPTP seats don't necessarily equate to a huge majority in favour of another Scottish referendum.
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Post by captainconfident on Dec 16, 2019 18:07:27 GMT
Labour politicians who seem to be in total denial of what happened in the election keep piping up in interviews with the claim that Brexit was the reason for their low vote total. But I know several people in my constituency and most of them voted Labour because they were anti-Brexit, anti Tory.
Labour got piles of votes from people who didn't support their policies or their lacklustre leader, trying to vote tactically. The actual number of genuinely enthusiastic Labour voters was probably miniscule. It's only the nature of the two-party election system that allows this brain dead party to exist.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 16, 2019 19:58:06 GMT
Labour politicians who seem to be in total denial of what happened in the election keep piping up in interviews with the claim that Brexit was the reason for their low vote total. But I know several people in my constituency and most of them voted Labour because they were anti-Brexit, anti Tory. Labour got piles of votes from people who didn't support their policies or their lacklustre leader, trying to vote tactically. The actual number of genuinely enthusiastic Labour voters was probably miniscule. It's only the nature of the two-party election system that allows this brain dead party to exist. I'm guessing you don't live somewhere like Bolsover? Surely for each tactical Remain vote Labour gained there were several more Leave votes lost? I do agree it wasn't just Brexit though. A hard left (or a hard right) is never going to appeal to the majority.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 16, 2019 22:41:06 GMT
Labour politicians who seem to be in total denial of what happened in the election keep piping up in interviews with the claim that Brexit was the reason for their low vote total. But I know several people in my constituency and most of them voted Labour because they were anti-Brexit, anti Tory. Labour got piles of votes from people who didn't support their policies or their lacklustre leader, trying to vote tactically. The actual number of genuinely enthusiastic Labour voters was probably miniscule. It's only the nature of the two-party election system that allows this brain dead party to exist. I'm guessing you don't live somewhere like Bolsover? Surely for each tactical Remain vote Labour gained there were several more Leave votes lost? I do agree it wasn't just Brexit though. A hard left (or a hard right) is never going to appeal to the majority.which is why the right and the left like the first past the post system that gives them a large majority of seats on a minority of votes.
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