mrk
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Post by mrk on Dec 17, 2019 0:20:11 GMT
Labour politicians who seem to be in total denial of what happened in the election keep piping up in interviews with the claim that Brexit was the reason for their low vote total. The Guardian had a good article the other day: This is a repudiation of Corbynism: "But pause before declaring that this was the Brexit election: in fact, the NHS overtook Brexit as voters’ top concern. The trouble was, voters trusted Johnson on the NHS more than they trusted Jeremy Corbyn. You read that right." I think the key point is this: "For the last four years, Labour has been in thrall to the notion that it’s better to have a manifesto you can feel proud of, a programme that calls itself radical, than to devise one that might have a chance of winning."
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 17, 2019 8:10:16 GMT
I'm guessing you don't live somewhere like Bolsover? Perhaps if they hadn't simply put up the usual suspect - now 87 years old... This is one part of the issue - sheer complacency in safe seats.
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JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Dec 17, 2019 9:27:42 GMT
I think the main reason for the collapse of the labour vote was that they were trying to bribe everyone with free everything paid for by a "little bit more" tax from a few other people. Nobody believed that this time because it was obviously impossible, whereas in 2017 some did.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 17, 2019 10:00:59 GMT
Labour politicians who seem to be in total denial of what happened in the election keep piping up in interviews with the claim that Brexit was the reason for their low vote total. .... I think the key point is this: "For the last four years, Labour has been in thrall to the notion that it’s better to have a manifesto you can feel proud of, a programme that calls itself radical, than to devise one that might have a chance of winning." A total sense of deja vu: back to the early eighties this time with Jeremy Footbyn and John Hatton McDonnell
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 17, 2019 10:04:24 GMT
I think the main reason for the collapse of the labour vote was that they were trying to bribe everyone with free everything paid for by a "little bit more" tax from a few other people. Nobody believed that this time because it was obviously impossible, whereas in 2017 some did. Nah. The lesson to learn is it wasn't radical enough: next time they need to throw in the "free puppies for everyone" bit; they only cut that out at the last minute because Dianne Abbot said the numbers all added up and the manifesto was fully funded, but not if you included that, as clearly it would also require free dog food for life to ensure the puppies didn't come to any harm.
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Post by captainconfident on Dec 17, 2019 10:37:36 GMT
What with all the Tory pledges to help struggling communities and to right all the wrongs of the last nine years of Tory rule, isn't the Labour Party practically irrelevant? Now that The Workers Take Control of the Means of Production has been roundly rejected once again, what is left? Actually, a good section on the Green agenda and treatment of farm animals. But in a fairly representitive parliament, that would be the province of another party.
In any other country this party would split and the far Left zealots could keep polishing their Marxist credentials while the rest formed a Social Democratic party. But again, the FPTP electoral system preserved this ineffective mess of a party as the alternative government and we have to pay attention to these deluded twits who have been handed this unwarranted status.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 17, 2019 13:31:17 GMT
BJ putting a no-deal firmly back on the agenda has spooked the currency markets again - post exit poll/election gains all wiped out. Brexit is very far from getting done.
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Dec 17, 2019 14:01:24 GMT
BJ putting a no-deal firmly back on the agenda has spooked the currency markets again - post exit poll/election gains all wiped out. Brexit is very far from getting done. Well, everyone with a grain of salt already knew that. If anyone truly believed the new government would "Get Brexit done" by the end of January they clearly hadn't been paying attention. On no-deal, the Conservatives manifesto clearly said " we will not extend the implementation period beyond December 2020". Writing it into law does't actually change much in practice, considering that they could always pass a different law in a few months if they really wanted to. It's mostly a signal they're sending to the EU. I bet/hope there will be some sort of agreement ready by end 2020 that covers some areas like goods, so the government can claim "see, we did get a deal in time". But then there will still be an extension of current agreements in some other areas, just not talked much about. A bit like the 50,000 more nurses of which 19,000 are not acually new.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 17, 2019 14:34:43 GMT
If anyone truly believed the new government (on anything) they clearly hadn't been paying attention. Corrected that for you. And a very bizarre one it is, too. The only way it makes any sense at all is if you really swallow the "They need us more than we need them" schtick. Without that, it's simply hamstringing the UK's negotiations. All the EU need to do is to put their feet up on anything contentious and say "Let us know when you've changed your minds, lads. <tick, tick, tick>" BJ et al will then simply have to scurry about trying to find some compromise that's not utterly toxic to their promises. It's going to be hard enough just trying to do it in 11mo, let alone then single-handedly imposing a hard deadline - while also spinning about how you actively want to diverge standards - which is going to make the negotiations more complex, because they'll need to include ways to deal with that.
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Post by captainconfident on Dec 17, 2019 14:42:10 GMT
Indeed this means one of two things. A deal is done by July that commits the UK to shadow the EU on trade and all related standards, or no deal. Any more complicated agreement involving regulatory divergence will take more than to the deadline to agree, as they plough through the treaty sector by sector.
I wonder why they want to be so doctrinaire about this. Are the old Singapore Model advocates still in control?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 17, 2019 16:28:17 GMT
I wonder why they want to be so doctrinaire about this. Gitbreggzitduninnit Singapore Gin Sling advocates, more like. Or do you mean Dyson?
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Post by captainconfident on Dec 17, 2019 18:48:00 GMT
Yeah but Gerbexzzitdone was over as soon as the election was over, you would have thought. Now the priority should be 'Get the best deal possible with our closest trading partners'. That is their absolute duty. WTO isolation is squarely at odds with the livelihoods of the new constituency that the Conservatives have found. The delight of improved public transport isn't going to outweigh your employer going bust.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 17, 2019 21:37:37 GMT
I wonder how all those people who voted Tory to "get Brexit done" are going to feel when they find out that Brexit is unlikely to be "done" in our lifetimes, if at all?
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Post by dan1 on Dec 17, 2019 23:07:29 GMT
BJ putting a no-deal firmly back on the agenda has spooked the currency markets again - post exit poll/election gains all wiped out. Brexit is very far from getting done. Every little helps..... to calm Odey's nerves that is
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 18, 2019 0:49:50 GMT
Well I was buying Euros and dollars at nearly 1.21/1.35. Ran out of free trades on Revolut until later in the month.
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