registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,211
Likes: 6,015
|
Post by registerme on Nov 8, 2021 22:43:24 GMT
the irony being the Republicans were antislavery the democrats wanted to keep it Yup. One of the stranger occurrences in the last couple of hundred years.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,011
Likes: 4,822
|
Post by adrianc on Nov 9, 2021 10:03:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by martin44 on Nov 11, 2021 20:32:26 GMT
Yep, appalling, isn't it? "Successive governments have been criticised for failing to tackle the UK's poor housing stock - some of the worst in Europe."Yet now people are being criticised for saying that needs to change? "In the last 25 years, governments have tended to shy away from the issue. The Labour government made a rule that people extending their properties should be obliged to insulate the rest of their home too.
However, the Coalition government dropped the clause after it was labelled a "conservatory tax" in the media, even though it was not a tax and did not refer to conservatories."And there we have the issue in a nutshell. "home energy expert ... is currently refurbishing (a) home in Wimbledon, south London. He says it has added 10% to the £250,000 total cost, which included major extensions, but will save 80% of energy bills and take about 20 years to recoup."5% annualised RoI is a bargain, even before you consider the non-financial benefits. Not appaling.. just simply nonsense.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,011
Likes: 4,822
|
Post by adrianc on Nov 11, 2021 20:39:54 GMT
Yep, appalling, isn't it? "Successive governments have been criticised for failing to tackle the UK's poor housing stock - some of the worst in Europe."Yet now people are being criticised for saying that needs to change? "In the last 25 years, governments have tended to shy away from the issue. The Labour government made a rule that people extending their properties should be obliged to insulate the rest of their home too.
However, the Coalition government dropped the clause after it was labelled a "conservatory tax" in the media, even though it was not a tax and did not refer to conservatories."And there we have the issue in a nutshell. "home energy expert ... is currently refurbishing (a) home in Wimbledon, south London. He says it has added 10% to the £250,000 total cost, which included major extensions, but will save 80% of energy bills and take about 20 years to recoup."5% annualised RoI is a bargain, even before you consider the non-financial benefits. Not appaling.. just simply nonsense. Insulating houses is nonsense? 5% annual RoI on insulating a house is not worthwhile, even if you don't think there's non-financial benefits to 80% energy savings?
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,211
Likes: 6,015
|
Post by registerme on Nov 11, 2021 23:10:17 GMT
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,875
Likes: 2,313
|
Post by keitha on Nov 11, 2021 23:19:47 GMT
Not appaling.. just simply nonsense. Insulating houses is nonsense? 5% annual RoI on insulating a house is not worthwhile, even if you don't think there's non-financial benefits to 80% energy savings? My maths says it added 10% to a £250,000 refurb, £25,000 divide by 20 £1250 a year, that represents 80% of fuel bills. Remaining 205 is about £300
I'd say on a £250,000 project and major extensions to a property that getting fuel bills down to about £300 a year is a major achievement.
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,247
Likes: 2,692
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 12, 2021 9:16:57 GMT
I wish insulate Britain had superglued themselves to the road in front of this lot, they would probably have been exterminated, I'm sure no one would have stopped in case it was terrorists (or would it have been?) . IB's message is absolutely right. We DO need to. Their methods...? Well, if the suffragettes had only done things that didn't hack people off... And, frankly, if it comes to a question of saving the planet or annoying people like Mrs School-Run-Softroader, pass me the superglue. www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ77YFOiunwHow does stopping children getting to school help their campaign? Or worse stopping people picking children up from school leaving them standing outside the gates alone? And how does causing huge queues on motorways reduce emissions? People with nothing to do all day stopping people who do have things to do getting on with their lives, up market rent a mob. Protest outside parliament, chain yourselves to the railings, glue yourselves to No 10, or to the offices of house building companies, don't aggravate the people you want to support you. The cause is good but I find the tactics idiotic. The suffragettes really were terrorists willing to commit real acts of violence and suffer and die for their beliefs, no comparison.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,211
Likes: 6,015
|
Post by registerme on Nov 12, 2021 12:10:23 GMT
Insulating houses is nonsense? 5% annual RoI on insulating a house is not worthwhile, even if you don't think there's non-financial benefits to 80% energy savings? My maths says it added 10% to a £250,000 refurb, £25,000 divide by 20 £1250 a year, that represents 80% of fuel bills. Remaining 205 is about £300
I'd say on a £250,000 project and major extensions to a property that getting fuel bills down to about £300 a year is a major achievement.
Amusingly (?) I went to a conference on Tuesday night where a Barclays representative was talking about the opportunity of "embedding finance" in the house buying cycle, particularly with a view to financing insulation / heat pumps / solar PV etc along with the purchase of the actual property. Possibly even making it a condition of providing finance for the purchase of a house or flat. I collared her afterwards and related my experience with EDF and solar PV, and pointed out that without appropriate consumer protections the idea of installing 25 million heat pumps (etc) was a disaster, on the scale of PPI, waiting to happen. To her credit she has passed my story (including my submission to the Ombudsman Services - Energy) on to the team that is looking at how to create such a financing business, and who and how to partner with etc. Will it increase EDF's financing costs? Probably not. Might it result in a better offering, that helps move us in a slightly greener direction? Just possibly.
|
|
|
Post by martin44 on Nov 12, 2021 19:04:38 GMT
Not appaling.. just simply nonsense. Insulating houses is nonsense? 5% annual RoI on insulating a house is not worthwhile, even if you don't think there's non-financial benefits to 80% energy savings? Of course insulating a house is not nonsense, but to insulate a property built in say london, around 1900 ish, (of which there are many hundreds of thousands) unfortunately will cost a fortune, sticking in a bit of loft insulation simply will not cut it, to properly insulate these properties will need low-e argon glazing, loft insulation, wall insulation and more... costing a fortune, which the vast majority of people do not have, and an amount that the GOVT simply cannot afford.. tho that is debatable considering they found countless billions to lock everyone up.
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,875
Likes: 2,313
|
Post by keitha on Nov 12, 2021 19:40:58 GMT
For a fairly standard property like my Solid wall terraced house You are Looking at Circa £14,000 for external wall insulation £6,000 to insulate a Solid Ground floor
With a Air to Water Heat pump you would also need a heat Store ( Which will be about 1 metre Square )
With the lower flow temperatures you may need either underfloor heating or bigger radiators and it doesn't work well with microbore
In terms of cost / value of properties in London £30,000 is 5% of property value ( Average price £625,000) or 1/3 of the median salary ( UK median salary is £68,000 , and Property £325,000)
However in Blaenau Gwent £30,000 is 30% of the property value or 1 years salary
|
|
tjtl
Posts: 232
Likes: 351
|
Post by tjtl on Nov 16, 2021 12:59:33 GMT
"It has always been the right who were in favour of slavery, the left against it". Say that to the Russians in the Gulags, or the Uyghurs in China. It is not a right/left split. It is a totalitarian/ freedom split. Neither the right nor the left have a monopoly of virtue
|
|
KoR_Wraith
Member of DD Central
Posts: 293
Likes: 297
|
Post by KoR_Wraith on Nov 16, 2021 13:41:53 GMT
"It has always been the right who were in favour of slavery, the left against it". Say that to the Russians in the Gulags, or the Uyghurs in China. It is not a right/left split. It is a totalitarian/ freedom split. Neither the right nor the left have a monopoly of virtue Yes, left/right in an international context is very different to left/right in a domestic western world context. With that caveat accepted, adrianc 's position is correct.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2021 15:59:57 GMT
There is a lovely paper published about 10 years ago about a upgrade to normal houses to make them net zero. The science was perfect, the installation perfect, the savings (fully tested by York University) great the instructions on how to operate the heating system were checked by the simple english society etc etc
Then humans turned up, would not read the instructions, just wanted to do what they had always done. Kept leaving the windows open so the sensors couldn't monitor the house temperature, kept drying their socks on the heaters causing mold etc etc. Absolute disaster. Not reading the instructions is the problem. I recently stayed with some very bright friends who had three kettles, a gas kettle, an electric kettle and a microwave kettle. They had them for two years and still didn't know which used the least energy.
Humans can be morons
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on Nov 16, 2021 16:58:44 GMT
For a fairly standard property like my Solid wall terraced house You are Looking at Circa £14,000 for external wall insulation £6,000 to insulate a Solid Ground floor With a Air to Water Heat pump you would also need a heat Store ( Which will be about 1 metre Square ) With the lower flow temperatures you may need either underfloor heating or bigger radiators and it doesn't work well with microbore In terms of cost / value of properties in London £30,000 is 5% of property value ( Average price £625,000) or 1/3 of the median salary ( UK median salary is £68,000 , and Property £325,000) However in Blaenau Gwent £30,000 is 30% of the property value or 1 years salary Sounds too high. Isn't the UK median closer to £32,000? "Median weekly pay for full-time employees was £611 in April 2021. This compares with £586 in April 2020, where weekly pay was first affected by the pandemic, and £585 in 2019."Figures for the London median seem unreliable, varying widely from £16k here to £93k here.
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,875
Likes: 2,313
|
Post by keitha on Nov 16, 2021 18:11:34 GMT
For a fairly standard property like my Solid wall terraced house You are Looking at Circa £14,000 for external wall insulation £6,000 to insulate a Solid Ground floor With a Air to Water Heat pump you would also need a heat Store ( Which will be about 1 metre Square ) With the lower flow temperatures you may need either underfloor heating or bigger radiators and it doesn't work well with microbore In terms of cost / value of properties in London £30,000 is 5% of property value ( Average price £625,000) or 1/3 of the median salary ( UK median salary is £68,000 , and Property £325,000) However in Blaenau Gwent £30,000 is 30% of the property value or 1 years salary Sounds too high. Isn't the UK median closer to £32,000? "Median weekly pay for full-time employees was £611 in April 2021. This compares with £586 in April 2020, where weekly pay was first affected by the pandemic, and £585 in 2019."Figures for the London median seem unreliable, varying widely from £16k here to £93k here. I Thought it was high but can't find the site I got it from.
|
|