p2pmark
Member of DD Central
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Post by p2pmark on Mar 11, 2021 13:35:22 GMT
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p2pmark
Member of DD Central
Posts: 218
Likes: 187
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Post by p2pmark on Mar 11, 2021 13:37:19 GMT
Plenty of contributors here identified this as looking very much like a Ponzi scam years ago, on page 1 of this thread ( invester , Mike , IFISAcava , p2pmark ,...) Were the regulators asleep on the job? Shocking. To clarify, I didn't (and don't) think it was a scam. But I didn't think it would be sustainable for the reasons I set out.
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Mar 11, 2021 13:45:53 GMT
Another OP that likes to pump and dump
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 11, 2021 15:09:25 GMT
Plenty of contributors here identified this as looking very much like a Ponzi scam years ago, on page 1 of this thread ( invester , Mike , IFISAcava , p2pmark ,...) Were the regulators asleep on the job? Shocking. I hope this isn’t another knee jerk “if it’s gone wrong blame the regulator post/rant”  Which regulator are we “gunning” for. Or is it shoot the FCA first ask questions later! [ Football Index is provided by BetIndex Ltd which is licensed and regulated by the Jersey Gambling Commission and by the UK Gambling Commission.] Might have been a big clue in the company name and the type of regulation! Ducks and takes cover before any cavalry from down under responds to the regulator bashing bugle call. Who mentioned the FCA? Even the UK Gambling Commission has limits on what is acceptable. Perhaps it was naive of me to think they, as industry regulator, might protect people from being hoodwinked by what appears to be a potential Ponzi scheme. I personally never used Football Index, so have no axe to grind. Call me naive for thinking illegal Ponzi schemes were a thing of the past, what with all the various layers of regulation that have sprung up over the years. This is just me expressing surprise that a scheme of this nature could get going in this day and age.
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 11, 2021 16:45:18 GMT
Who mentioned the FCA? Even the UK Gambling Commission has limits on what is acceptable. Perhaps it was naive of me to think they, as industry regulator, might protect people from being hoodwinked by what appears to be a potential Ponzi scheme. I personally never used Football Index, so have no axe to grind. Call me naive for thinking illegal Ponzi schemes were a thing of the past, what with all the various layers of regulation that have sprung up over the years. This is just me expressing surprise that a scheme of this nature could get going in this day and age. It’s gambling. After companies have taken out their slice gambling is always less than a zero sum game. Rarely is gambling wrapped up into such a “pyramidal” structure quite like this FI betting/gambling, but there are vaguely similar setups. Poker collectively and on a tournament basis is arguably a pyramid. Collectively star professional poker players at the top of the industry are reliant on a lesser skilled players in a pyramid of net losers below them. Ditto a big many hundred/thousands poker tournament where only the final table get any money. Obviously there are many differences between poker and FI. [PS It’s important to also distinguish losses from peak potential winnings to real losses from money in. In the case of the Twitter screen grabs do we know how much the guy originally put in?] He describes it as his life savings in his Tweet. Sounds like diversification didn't feature too highly in his 'investment' strategy...
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,015
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Post by adrianc on Mar 12, 2021 8:15:22 GMT
It’s gambling. After companies have taken out their slice gambling is always less than a zero sum game. Rarely is gambling wrapped up into such a “pyramidal” structure quite like this FI betting/gambling, but there are vaguely similar setups. Poker collectively and on a tournament basis is arguably a pyramid. Collectively star professional poker players at the top of the industry are reliant on a lesser skilled players in a pyramid of net losers below them. Ditto a big many hundred/thousands poker tournament where only the final table get any money. Obviously there are many differences between poker and FI. [PS It’s important to also distinguish losses from peak potential winnings to real losses from money in. In the case of the Twitter screen grabs do we know how much the guy originally put in?] He describes it as his life savings in his Tweet. Sounds like diversification didn't feature too highly in his 'investment' strategy... The screenshots suggest he invested somewhere around £140k-£190k. And that he's now got £25k. If he can liquidate and withdraw that...
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macq
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Post by macq on Mar 12, 2021 8:55:27 GMT
with the news that they suspended the platform overnight (and administration is also mentioned) reports that the platform issued new shares in some players last week at full trading price a couple of days before they bought in new rules which caused a crash in the product if found to be true should cause a second look by the gambling commission
Think posts 4 & 5 on this thread were probably as far as you needed to read but the trouble is they have gained a big following who trusted the product having seen them sponsor the likes of QPR & Nottingham Forest this season,radio and tv ads by John Motson and signing a deal to work with Nasdaq. Not sure how true it is but they also seem to have been mentioned over the last few days on sports forums about radio/tv/media tie-ins of shows and podcasts etc and some football journalists spreading the word (One was named as offering to donate his payment to charity earlier in the week) if that is true it has given it an air of respectability
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 12, 2021 9:04:46 GMT
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IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 3,018
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 12, 2021 9:05:44 GMT
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IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 3,018
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Post by IFISAcava on Mar 12, 2021 9:07:08 GMT
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macq
Member of DD Central
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Post by macq on Mar 12, 2021 9:23:39 GMT
It was basically the same as sitting round the table with your mates and playing a board game but with real money and who was left at the end of the night with the most money was the winner.At no time did you own a "share" of that player you just had his name on your account a bit like owning a sports trading card you could swap with someone else
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Mar 12, 2021 9:35:07 GMT
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p2pete
Member of DD Central
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Post by p2pete on Mar 12, 2021 9:51:01 GMT
All bets on Football Index have a 3 year expiry so by the time the administration is completed, the Administrators will probably argue that none of the gambled money is owed back to customers. I think the best that they can hope for is to get cash balances returned.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,329
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 12, 2021 9:53:30 GMT
Gamblers arent going to be the only shareholders who lose out raised on Seedrs in 2016, 2017 & 2019. That said anyone who sold out via SM since 2019 would have made over 300%
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Post by bernythedolt on Mar 12, 2021 11:45:10 GMT
Extract from that blog: "But Football Index is regulated by the Jersey Gambling commission? They are indeed, but it is my belief that they and the UK Gambling Commission don’t understand the mechanics... " That was my point about the regulator, a few posts upthread. They jolly well should have understood the product - that was their job! There should have been warnings plastered all over FI's pages in red ink that "this is a gambling product, not an investment, and you are more likely to lose money than win".
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