agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 9, 2019 17:18:47 GMT
If "the will of the people" really IS to leave, still, then what's to fear from asking them?
Are you suggesting that we have a new referendum every 2 years to see what the will of the people is (and then act upon it), or are you like the SNP, who just want more votes until they get the reuslt they prefer.
Whether it's stil the will of the people to leave is a bit academic, given it was the will of the people when it mattered.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 9, 2019 17:26:40 GMT
If "the will of the people" really IS to leave, still, then what's to fear from asking them? Are you suggesting that we have a new referendum every 2 years to see what the will of the people is (and then act upon it), or are you like the SNP, who just want more votes until they get the reuslt they prefer.
Whether it's stil the will of the people to leave is a bit academic, given it was the will of the people when it mattered. www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-parliaments-42882107/taking-your-nervous-aunts-to-reservoir-dogs
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Post by martin44 on Apr 10, 2019 0:07:39 GMT
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m2btj
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Post by m2btj on Apr 10, 2019 7:17:55 GMT
Extension will be granted by EU today & we then have European Parliament elections on 23 May at a cost of £100m. I will not vote on 23 May & will vote for a independent in the forthcoming local elections. What a shambles, Margaret Thatcher would turn in her grave!
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Apr 10, 2019 7:21:48 GMT
Extension will be granted by EU today & we then have European Parliament elections on 23 May at a cost of £100m. I will not vote on 23 May & will vote for a independent in the forthcoming local elections. What a shambles, Margaret Thatcher would turn in her grave! But was she not famous for saying 'The lady is not for turning'?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 10, 2019 7:28:16 GMT
I will not vote on 23 May You are, of course, free to disenfranchise yourself for whatever reason you want. I presume this independent candidate is a good candidate for representing your ward's interests on the local authority? Indeed. She would be despondent at the utter lack of leadership within the UK.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 10, 2019 7:46:33 GMT
..... a good candidate for representing your ward's interests If this is the criteria for chosing who to vote for in an election, then the HOC will be deserted after the next general election.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 10, 2019 8:16:18 GMT
..... a good candidate for representing your ward's interests If this is the criteria for chosing who to vote for in an election, then the HOC will be deserted after the next general election. Obviously for Westminster, substitute "constituency" in place of the "ward" of local elections. And, yes, it is and always has been the best criteria - since that's what your vote actually does. It chooses your local representative from that list of named individuals. No more. (But, yes, wouldn't it be lovely - and a huge change - if people voted for competent MPs rather than idiot blind-party-loyalist placemen?)
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Post by captainconfident on Apr 10, 2019 14:24:36 GMT
Really hoping the French stand firm and get a decision for no more extensions. Out or revoke Article 50 by Friday. Vive la France!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 10, 2019 16:27:11 GMT
Really hoping the French stand firm and get a decision for no more extensions. Out or revoke Article 50 by Friday. Vive la France! Just to clarify... You want the French government to have more of a say over British politics and the British economy than Westminster...?
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copacetic
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Post by copacetic on Apr 10, 2019 16:50:29 GMT
Really hoping the French stand firm and get a decision for no more extensions. Out or revoke Article 50 by Friday. Vive la France! Just to clarify... You want the French government to have more of a say over British politics and the British economy than Westminster...?
To be fair the HoC had their say when they voted to invoke article 50 and started the countdown. It was pretty clear when they enshrined in law that we were leaving on 29th March that there was the likelihood of leaving with or without a deal.
We've just got to the point that pro remain MPs have weaked the ability to negotiate a sensible deal so much that no deal is actually the only way to leave. Otherwise we effectively remain or split up the UK with May's deal. This is the EU plan all along, delay until they can reverse the referendum result. If France can force our own MPs to honour the referendum then, being a pragmatist, I'm all for that. They won't though.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 10, 2019 17:02:23 GMT
We've just got to the point that pro remain MPs have weaked the ability to negotiate a sensible deal so much that no deal is actually the only way to leave. Interesting how different our perspectives are:- * I don't think that any obtainable deal (including "no deal") was ever going to be better than the deal we already have ie being part of the EU. * We never had a strong position to negotiate from (ie Johnson and Davis et al were talking through their proverbials from the get go). * The EU has played an obvious hand well, and as expected, but more importantly they've played with a completely straight bat. * Our "negotiations", and our negotiating stance, has been incoherent since the start of all of this. * The politicians driving our negotiations, principally Davis, Fox, Baker, Rabb etc have been nothing other than inept. * The person at helm has been utterly inept from the date she took office. * Her predecessor, in an attempt to heal the wounds in the Conservative party, and head off the threat from UKIP, has likely confined the Conservative party to the dustbin of history, and may well have incubated the break up of the UK. Pro-Remain MPs are at least trying to salvage something from this shambles.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 10, 2019 17:17:45 GMT
And let's not forget what was originally promised by the Leave campaign... and how mutually incompatible it all was.
NOBODY could ever have delivered all of the promises.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 10, 2019 17:26:15 GMT
And let's not forget what was originally promised by the Leave campaign... and how mutually incompatible it all was.
NOBODY could ever have delivered all of the promises.
And it was "going to be the easiest deal in history" .
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 10, 2019 17:59:56 GMT
Just to clarify... You want the French government to have more of a say over British politics and the British economy than Westminster...? ....
We've just got to the point that pro remain MPs have weaked the ability to negotiate a sensible deal so much that no deal is actually the only way to leave. Otherwise we effectively remain or split up the UK with May's deal. This is the EU plan all along, delay until they can reverse the referendum result. If France can force our own MPs to honour the referendum then, being a pragmatist, I'm all for that. They won't though.
Sorry, but this really is nonsensical. The deal (WA) + political statement that May achieved is a pretty strong and hard brexit, including no customs union. It makes very little room for concerns of Remainer MPs. No CU and no customs checks between NI and rest of UK are not just May's 'red lines', they are red lines of the hard leave side. Namely ERG and DUP. But those red lines have consequences. Which have come in the form of the "backstop". The entirety of the DUP and the majority of the ERG have subsequently voted against the deal because of the very same backstop which is a natural consequence of the contradictory demands.
What would have have - the remoaners vote for May's pretty hard brexit in order to provide the counter weight for the hard brexiteers who nonetheless can't vote for it because of the fear of the backstop ?
Puzzled.
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