IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 3, 2019 23:13:37 GMT
There is very little we can't grow,make or get from elsewhere. We have North sea oi & Gasl (Until Scotland Keeps it ) Gas ( see previous and get fracking.)
Heat greenhouses and we can grow anything. It may cost a little (All figures quoted give highest allowed tarrif on WTO) more but it is not in struggling EU intrest to hold up agreeing a mutually benificial trade policy.
No matter what the country would be much better off than with a Jeremy Corbin government.
I see Labour party is bust and looking at cutting pensions etc to Staff. Is that not austerity cuts ?
Can't manage their party finances how the hell can they manage a country?
No matter what, the country would be better off without Brexit (well, for 50 years or so - opinion courtesy JRM) Brexiteers say that they are prepared to be worse off for the non-economic benefits that they perceive Brexit will bring. So Corbynistas are entitled to say the same about a Corbyn government. (personally I find it hard to say whether Brexit or a Corbyn government will be worse for the economy - they will both be very damaging, and the combination [which I hear few people discussing] potentially catastrophic)
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 4, 2019 6:55:24 GMT
No matter what the country would be much better off than with a Jeremy Corbin government.
Well that clearly depends on your view of the impact of each.
But this rather underlines the difference between the result of a General Election and the result of a referendum, esp if the latter had a rather vague or broad interpretation (different things to different people) . The result of the former can be overturned in max 5 years if people wish, and much of what might have been done reversed. The latter is a once in a lifetime / ever decision. Which is why arguments that it would be a breach of democratic principles to ratify the outcomes post ref. is simply flawed.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Feb 4, 2019 9:30:18 GMT
No matter what the country would be much better off than with a Jeremy Corbin government.
Well that clearly depends on your view of the impact of each.
But this rather underlines the difference between the result of a General Election and the result of a referendum, esp if the latter had a rather vague or broad interpretation (different things to different people) . The result of the former can be overturned in max 5 years if people wish, and much of what might have been done reversed. The latter is a once in a lifetime / ever decision. Which is why arguments that it would be a breach of democratic principles to ratify the outcomes post ref. is simply flawed.
I’ve already had 3 referendums in my lifteme and 2 of them are being questioned. To correct the mess that Labour can make in 5 years would take another large pat of my life. People also vote for a party for different reasons so that’s no excuse not to ratify a decision. Let us just get on with the process and adapt to the conditions that develop.
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yangmills
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Post by yangmills on Feb 4, 2019 11:19:11 GMT
One of the things I find so odd about those who seem to want a hard brexit or a no-deal brexit, is that they also seem to fear a Corbyn government. Yet both those outcomes clearly increase the probability of either a Corbyn government or a Tory Ultra government. What I find even more odd is that they don’t realise that, while Corbyn might be bad, the Tory ultras would be a far worse proposition for most of them (at least 90%+ of the population).
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Feb 4, 2019 11:24:14 GMT
One of the things I find so odd about those who seem to want a hard brexit or a no-deal brexit, is that they also seem to fear a Corbyn government. Yet both those outcomes clearly increase the probability of either a Corbyn government or a Tory Ultra government. What I find even more odd is that they don’t realise that, while Corbyn might be bad, the Tory ultras would be a far worse proposition for most of them (at least 90%+ of the population). I'm curious to know how we could possibly get a Tory Ultra government, when the current set of Tory MPs struggle to be even remotely on the right politically?
Would be a good start if the Tories returned to being a low-tax party, strong on defense, policing, NHS/Social care, schools etc
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Feb 4, 2019 16:58:13 GMT
One of the things I find so odd about those who seem to want a hard brexit or a no-deal brexit, is that they also seem to fear a Corbyn government. Yet both those outcomes clearly increase the probability of either a Corbyn government or a Tory Ultra government. What I find even more odd is that they don’t realise that, while Corbyn might be bad, the Tory ultras would be a far worse proposition for most of them (at least 90%+ of the population). Leavers want to peel away layers of government . A Socialist Government would only introduce more restriction. Theoretically conservatism should free individual enterprise and development. There has been precious little since the Thatcher years. My own family was able to form a co-op and between us buy my parents' council house ,use it as collateral and working together we finally bought three acres of border hill country. We could never have done this under Jeremy Corbyn.
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Post by martin44 on Feb 4, 2019 23:44:40 GMT
One of the things I find so odd about those who seem to want a hard brexit or a no-deal brexit, is that they also seem to fear a Corbyn government. Yet both those outcomes clearly increase the probability of either a Corbyn government or a Tory Ultra government. What I find even more odd is that they don’t realise that, while Corbyn might be bad, the Tory ultras would be a far worse proposition for most of them (at least 90%+ of the population). Leavers want to peel away layers of government . A Socialist Government would only introduce more restriction. Theoretically conservatism should free individual enterprise and development. There has been precious little since the Thatcher years. My own family was able to form a co-op and between us buy my parents' council house ,use it as collateral and working together we finally bought three acres of border hill country. We could never have done this under Jeremy Corbyn. my bold. being a Tory, and, being a beneficiary myself of the council house sell of, i cannot help but feel that the sales proceeds were never directed to the promised land of rebuilding further council houses, its a well known fact that in most circumstances outside of London, the sale of a house can produce the funds to build 2, it was a great idea, but only half the idea was ever carried forward.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Feb 5, 2019 0:56:09 GMT
Listen to what Labour will do. Their answer to everything from Brexit to NHS is. "We will look into that" Every BLeeping request for their answer to a problem is that.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Feb 5, 2019 9:06:43 GMT
Listen to what Labour will do. Their answer to everything from Brexit to NHS is. "We will look into that" Every BLeeping request for their answer to a problem is that.
I suspect Corbyn would like to be out of the EU not only because he's said to have always been against it, but also because it's doubtful Labour could carry out their renationalisation/state aid programme within the EU. However, he knows Labour will lose some votes if he says that.
Meanwhile, a bit of common sense - "Lorries will be able to drive straight off ferries and Channel Tunnel trains without making customs declarations in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the government has announced." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47121225
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Feb 5, 2019 9:58:41 GMT
Leavers want to peel away layers of government . A Socialist Government would only introduce more restriction. Theoretically conservatism should free individual enterprise and development. There has been precious little since the Thatcher years. My own family was able to form a co-op and between us buy my parents' council house ,use it as collateral and working together we finally bought three acres of border hill country. We could never have done this under Jeremy Corbyn. my bold. being a Tory, and, being a beneficiary myself of the council house sell of, i cannot help but feel that the sales proceeds were never directed to the promised land of rebuilding further council houses, its a well known fact that in most circumstances outside of London, the sale of a house can produce the funds to build 2, it was a great idea, but only half the idea was ever carried forward. Totally agree, M. Thatcher is vilified but was let down by her successors, none of whom were interested in anything but a power grab and clinging to power .There was none of the planned regeneration of the industrial areas. Housing stock was not renewed and all was ignored in favour of the grants and benefits promised by the Holy Grail of the EU . Workers left to languish without employment ,but HEY! lets give them an arts centre and a rock and roll museum sponsored by a gold circle of stars on a blue background and employing Gemma, some one's daughter who has finished her degree in circus studies. No wonder we all took to crystal meth.
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Feb 5, 2019 18:27:29 GMT
If we can't agree a suitable alternative, the only way to keep the border open is for NI (EU's choice) or the whole UK (our choice, and agreed by EU as way of compromise) to remain a part of the customs union until there is a suitable solution. We are legally entitled to leave the EU, and if this causes an issue at the border it is as much an EU problem to solve as ours (maybe the people that drafted the GF agreement should have thought of this)
If we leave the customs union the EU says that NI must remain and we have customs checks carried out on good entering NI from the rest of the UK. As an alternative, how about the Irish republic remaining in a customs union with the UK and customs checks are carried out on EU goods entering the Irish republic? This shouldn't be aproblem for the EU, as all would go back to normal once the trade deal is signed (which the EU say is bound to happen, hence their stance that we don't need to worry about the backstop as it will never be implemented)
Been saying this all along and I live in the republic, it shuts some of them up but you always get the few that say well Britain wants to leave so why should RoI do that.
Interestingly a lot think it is a fantastic idea and that it should be applied permanently, they also say how happy they are that a country finally decided to leave and hope that others follow
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Post by charlata on Feb 5, 2019 19:18:26 GMT
One of the things I find so odd about those who seem to want a hard brexit or a no-deal brexit, is that they also seem to fear a Corbyn government. Yet both those outcomes clearly increase the probability of either a Corbyn government or a Tory Ultra government. What I find even more odd is that they don’t realise that, while Corbyn might be bad, the Tory ultras would be a far worse proposition for most of them (at least 90%+ of the population). If we're doing ironies, I don't suppose many of the quitters have noticed that on the other side of the North Sea, the alt right and national sovereignty parties have quietly dropped the idea of leaving the EU, and are instead set to make big gains in the European elections. If the British wing could only have waited, they might just have seen the EU reformed to something more in line with their vision.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Feb 5, 2019 20:23:04 GMT
One of the things I find so odd about those who seem to want a hard brexit or a no-deal brexit, is that they also seem to fear a Corbyn government. Yet both those outcomes clearly increase the probability of either a Corbyn government or a Tory Ultra government. What I find even more odd is that they don’t realise that, while Corbyn might be bad, the Tory ultras would be a far worse proposition for most of them (at least 90%+ of the population). If we're doing ironies, I don't suppose many of the quitters have noticed that on the other side of the North Sea, the alt right and national sovereignty parties have quietly dropped the idea of leaving the EU, and are instead set to make big gains in the European elections. If the British wing could only have waited, they might just have seen the EU reformed to something more in line with their vision. Seems to be a common conception amongst the ill educated, post Baby Boomers, that all Leavers must be proto nazis. A sad example of the execrable education and teaching of the last 30 yrs , that we baby boomers landed on our 'kids' because we didn't want the stress. What goes around ,comes around.
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Post by captainconfident on Feb 5, 2019 22:56:13 GMT
One of the things I find so odd about those who seem to want a hard brexit or a no-deal brexit, is that they also seem to fear a Corbyn government. Yet both those outcomes clearly increase the probability of either a Corbyn government or a Tory Ultra government. What I find even more odd is that they don’t realise that, while Corbyn might be bad, the Tory ultras would be a far worse proposition for most of them (at least 90%+ of the population). If we're doing ironies, I don't suppose many of the quitters have noticed that on the other side of the North Sea, the alt right and national sovereignty parties have quietly dropped the idea of leaving the EU, and are instead set to make big gains in the European elections. If the British wing could only have waited, they might just have seen the EU reformed to something more in line with their vision. The previous reply to your post doesn't make any sense, and this post deserves better. This is a really good point that you are making.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Feb 5, 2019 23:00:34 GMT
One of the things I find so odd about those who seem to want a hard brexit or a no-deal brexit, is that they also seem to fear a Corbyn government. Yet both those outcomes clearly increase the probability of either a Corbyn government or a Tory Ultra government. What I find even more odd is that they don’t realise that, while Corbyn might be bad, the Tory ultras would be a far worse proposition for most of them (at least 90%+ of the population). If we're doing ironies, I don't suppose many of the quitters have noticed that on the other side of the North Sea, the alt right and national sovereignty parties have quietly dropped the idea of leaving the EU, and are instead set to make big gains in the European elections. If the British wing could only have waited, they might just have seen the EU reformed to something more in line with their vision. If a country is a net beneficiary of EU money, makes sense to stay and try to change the EU from within (best of luck with that). Makes less sense for the UK.
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