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Post by martin44 on Oct 16, 2019 20:42:10 GMT
FWIW I think this thread is great  I've paid lip service to the protests to date because I trust the science I was astounded, I just searched and it seems XR (I only became aware of the acronym from this thread, thank you all ) was founded less than a year ago  . It's on a par with brexit discussions Please keep up the debate on both sides of the argument. It raises the profile and acts as a catalyst for the movement, thank you. This is real movement and with this kind of momentum change for the good will accelerate Go Greta Go Very funny. 
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Oct 17, 2019 7:42:13 GMT
BBC showing a bunch of XR activists that don't seem to be enjoying popular support 
And I like this on the XR website "Celebrities backing Extinction Rebellion say ‘yes, we are all hypocrites’ in open letter to media"
"We live high carbon lives and the industries that we are part of have huge carbon footprints. Like you – and everyone else – we are stuck in this fossil-fuel economy and without systemic change, our lifestyles will keep on causing climate and ecological harm."
--
Poor souls, stuck with jobs that make them fly to/from the US (or where ever they choose to work), because it's obviously not possible for them to choose another job.
Bit like Lewis Hamilton (here), who takes how many flights per year, saying "Extinction of our race is becoming more and more likely as we over use our resources." or Prince William ( here) who must remember not to fly places to lecture us on climate change.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 8:55:12 GMT
The message though is pretty clear, we are all over consuming and we have to carry out some changes to lifestyles in order that the next generation has a chance of a better life. That requires a fair bit of thought, discussion and change. I like the fact that they too are hypocrites. It requires that level of honesty to be ready to cross the rubicon and change what you do. 10 years ago I was jetting around the planet, it took a long look to realise that it was unsustainable (on a ferry as it happens). As a result I'm far happier, far wealthier and far healthier.
I commend to you, take a little time out of your life and start to count it down rather than count it up. I assume that I will die at 90, so I am no longer 60 years old but I have 30 years to live. How do you want to spend the next ?? years of your life?
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macq
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Post by macq on Oct 17, 2019 9:50:17 GMT
i am not a denier even if sometimes i sound like it but the celebs we are hypocrites letter shows part of the problem in my opinion.Most celebs seem to have jumped on the wagon of carbon = travel/oil companies and its trendy to go vegan neither of which is a wrong in itself but covers up what the real hardcore eco warriors want,but they have missed and will require the general public to make more sacrifice while many celebs pay lip service
There is also the part of their lifestyle that does not get mentioned and which we support as well.Do they need more then One home of x amount of rooms most of which will be heated etc all year round.Forgetting the energy etc that is used in producing films/tv/music as they have to work - ,there is then the after effect.Do you need umpteen Red carpet events,spotlights & laser shows and after party in a night club?Does every major city need a place like Times Sq,Leicester Sq etc promoting every new movie,record,tv show and new tech product? Does somebody like George Clooney really think about how much power is used in promoting a high tech Coffee maker around the world using screens,billboards and posters or even if we need another plastic contraption
Will the likes of all the rock bands donating to XR cancel tours or at least play smaller venues,will they stop the light shows every night or risk losing some money and stop selling programmes,posters,key rings,t-shirts ,dvd's etc (answers on a postcard)
I love American football but does the NFL need to fly over probably 300 or more per team for 4 games in London for our entertainment probably not but being preached at by some out of Essex wannabe who's going to every event going will not help either
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 17, 2019 13:11:38 GMT
Climate change is real. The "climate emergency" is real. Anybody who tries to claim otherwise is simply denying actual hard scientific documented fact, because it's inconvenient to their political preconceptions. XR, whether you like their background and actions and methods or not, are at the absolute forefront of doing something to raise awareness of that fact. Does that make XR perfect? No, of course not. Do they need to be? Isn't denying climate change by attacking XR just an ad hominem attack because you know that denying climate change is on a loser? Changing the direction of society doesn't need a few people to be absolutely perfect. It needs a hell of a lot of people to start doing a little bit. Then do a bit more. It needs you to do it, it needs me to do it.I might not agree with XR themselves. I might well share the opinions @bobo mentioned above. But that doesn't mean I can get away without doing my bit... I'll be sorry to see you go adrian... getting rid of your PC,TV,LAPTOP,CAR ETC... i'm sure will help..good luck in your future as a sad, bitter..recluse. <rolls eyes> Does "reductio ad absurdo" mean anything to you, martin44? Or did you simply not bother reading anything bar a small handful of words from the post you just replied to?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 13:39:23 GMT
I thought you guys might like this article
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Oct 17, 2019 16:55:12 GMT
Well if they are soldiers,then they can expect to be shot down. As the mum of two real soldiers at the pointed end. I am totally pissed by these wet dreamers playing at life. ./nothing to do with climate change travolta I think our political views diverge a touch. Perhaps enough that they will never meet. But for what your boys(?) do, and for what your family bear, I will be ever grateful. Thank you. And yours. And please pass on my thanks, regards, respect and appreciation to those at the pointy end. RM Thank you Reg. Didnt mean to grab the moral high ground,but the real world intrudes sometimes. There's a whole load of people who could do with picking up the pieces in the worlds shitholes, instead of cavorting in front of the media.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Oct 17, 2019 19:20:20 GMT
The message though is pretty clear, we are all over consuming and we have to carry out some changes to lifestyles in order that the next generation has a chance of a better life. That requires a fair bit of thought, discussion and change. I like the fact that they too are hypocrites. It requires that level of honesty to be ready to cross the rubicon and change what you do. 10 years ago I was jetting around the planet, it took a long look to realise that it was unsustainable (on a ferry as it happens). As a result I'm far happier, far wealthier and far healthier.
I commend to you, take a little time out of your life and start to count it down rather than count it up. I assume that I will die at 90, so I am no longer 60 years old but I have 30 years to live. How do you want to spend the next ?? years of your life?
In the brave new world, when we've massively reduced (or completely stopped) flying for pleasure, what do we say to the tourist destinations (e.g. Caribbean, Canary Islands) whose economies we've trashed? Clearly, not a reason for continuing to pollute the world, but there will be consequences and I can't see your average ex-holiday maker being happy for the government to bung those places some compensation.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 11:35:20 GMT
I'm not sure you are really coming on board with the positive aspects of fighting climate change. :-)
For example, short-distance flights (within Europe) begin to make sense using battery-powered flights (though H2 might have some benefits here, time will tell) and certainly, a lot of money and research is going into this area. For longer distance flights H2 becomes the fuel of choice for high-speed engines in development and if we still need to burn carbon-based fuels the addition of biofuels and offsetting carbon buying taxes makes more and more sense. If such ideas come to fruition, and some serious money is looking into this stuff, our own investments should "follow the money".
Those most likely to be restricted from flying will be high usage people and even here they may be caught by higher charges rather than lower charges for frequent flyers.
I remind you, when I was a lad, people smoked everywhere and did not wear either motorbike helmets or seat belts in cars. We were told "we will never change" and yet.... it came to pass that most people wear seat belts, most wear motorbike helmets and smoking has dropped off greatly. Things change.
I was recently discussing "what will happen to those poor Pakistani women who slave to make cheap fashion if the west stops buying their cheap-as-chips T shirts?" Probably much as what happened to the coronation mug sellers, the T shirt makers in the UK, the hand-plough makers and the clog makers.
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Post by martin44 on Oct 18, 2019 23:07:22 GMT
I'll be sorry to see you go adrian... getting rid of your PC,TV,LAPTOP,CAR ETC... i'm sure will help..good luck in your future as a sad, bitter..recluse. <rolls eyes> Does " reductio ad absurdo" mean anything to you, martin44 ? Or did you simply not bother reading anything bar a small handful of words from the post you just replied to? "reductio ad absurdum" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 19, 2019 9:45:15 GMT
Thank you for correcting my flaky Latin, while completely avoiding the actual point. The plural of "absurdum" would, of course, be "absurda" not "absurdo".
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 10:34:41 GMT
and so the world ends, not with a bang, but with a latin lesson.....
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jj
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Jolly Jammy
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Post by jj on Oct 19, 2019 12:26:10 GMT
and so the world ends, not with a bang, but with a latin lesson..... World is not going to end. Humanity might, like the dinosaurs.
It might be worthwhile for us to move aside to let a more intelligent species to takeover.
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macq
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Post by macq on Oct 19, 2019 13:35:46 GMT
i know the monkeys doing Shakespeare on a typewriter saying - but i refuse to believe they can do Latin  |
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Post by brianac on Oct 24, 2019 16:28:10 GMT
Thank you for correcting my flaky Latin, while completely avoiding the actual point. The plural of "absurdum" would, of course, be "absurda" not "absurdo". Reducto Absurdum? Isn't that a "Harry Potter" spell?
:-) Brian
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. It's on a par with brexit discussions 
