agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 24, 2019 12:18:17 GMT
Yes that does mean some tough choices, nasty things like reducing the number of flights you have to take and the size of your car, or even don't own a car. Of the 20 million cars in the UK the majority sit still for 95% of the time anyway. Moving to battery or hydrogen is just so obvious and such a car/truck/bus offers all the energy storage we need "in case the wind stops". According to the graphic below, 72% of greenhouse gasses are related to energy production / use, so a bit unfair to pick on the internal combustion engine.
I don't dispute that climate change is happening, but wonder if it is the lesser of 2 evils. As I understand it we are in the warm phase of an ice age, and the return of the ice is overdue. Climate change may result in some low lying countries getting flooded, but if it helps prevent half the northern hemisphere getting covered in a layer of ice a mile thick, then maybe something to be celebrated.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 24, 2019 12:35:10 GMT
Just read a small article in today's Times saying that air travel was down something like 4% in Q1 2019 in Sweden. Let's hope that sort of thing catches on, should reduce the cost of foreign holidays as providers find it more difficult to shift their product  |
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macq
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Post by macq on Apr 24, 2019 12:40:52 GMT
Its not just about whether you believe or are a denier(and i am all for lower emissions,less plastic ,not destroying forest etc) but how you live your life now and how much you will change and how much you can afford is the problem
At the top of the eco protesters tree you have the so called by the media hard line new age vegan hippies who are probably willing to live off the land and follow their principles (yes i know its an over generalization) You then have the people like the lovely family interviewed on the news last week,who in One clip had their children telling us we must save the future by getting rid of cars but sitting in front of a tv with playstation,cable etc underneath and in another clip in the kitchen with a washing machine,dish washer and pod coffee maker etc.
And that's part of the problem as people could do more already and just seem fixed on cars and lately also air travel.But how many(even those up Hyde Park) are going to stop charging their lap tops,tablets and phones or turn the heating off and wash their clothes by hand.We used to be a nation of farmers now even in summer half our fruit and veg gets transported Europe (spuds & toms from Poland-why?) so are people willing to go without?and no more fresh fruit from Chile,NZ,South Africa and the rest in winter and.And while unbelievably they are trying to breed lower emission cows,are we all going to go diary free & vegan?how much energy is used by Starbucks and others in processing coffee beans,transporting them and then using leccy to make a Frappuccino so lets knock that on the head and not forgetting the water it wastes.Talking of water and forgetting the plastic bottle how much energy is used in the process and transporting so maybe its back to the tap,you could go on for ever
We can do more by building better homes and insulating older properties but is the govt. going to give thousands of pounds to households to change their boiler in One go (assuming there are enough engineers)While its true that nothing gets done by giving up and saying its impossible from the start,it would seem a longer time frame then many want as unless you want to live in a cave then there does seem to be a equal and opposite reaction to a lot of this
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 24, 2019 12:53:57 GMT
CO2 is evil, say it after me, "CO2 is evil". Better. I do hope you don't exhale much... The problem isn't CO2 per se, it's the long-term carbon cycle.
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cb25
Posts: 3,528
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Post by cb25 on Apr 24, 2019 13:06:53 GMT
CO2 is evil, say it after me, "CO2 is evil". Better. I do hope you don't exhale much... Time for involuntary euthanasia at (say) 50? Less people to drive/fly, less CO2, frees up jobs and houses, solves the NHS Social Care problem... Said in jest, but I think this could be a winner (except, I'd need an exemption as I'm the wrong side of that divide)
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macq
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Post by macq on Apr 24, 2019 13:15:51 GMT
I do hope you don't exhale much... Time for involuntary euthanasia at (say) 50? Less people to drive/fly, less CO2, frees up jobs and houses, solves the NHS Social Care problem... Said in jest, but I think this could be a winner (except, I'd need an exemption as I'm the wrong side of that divide) sorry but that's a no - as cremations are not good for the climate and burials take up to much land
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Apr 24, 2019 13:17:01 GMT
Time for involuntary euthanasia at (say) 50? Less people to drive/fly, less CO2, frees up jobs and houses, solves the NHS Social Care problem... Said in jest, but I think this could be a winner (except, I'd need an exemption as I'm the wrong side of that divide) sorry but that's a no - as cremations are not good for the climate and burials take up to much land Blimey - set in 2022...
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macq
Member of DD Central
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Post by macq on Apr 24, 2019 13:19:40 GMT
sorry but that's a no - as cremations are not good for the climate and burials take up to much land Blimey - set in 2022... its not the 2022 that worries me its remembering it when it came out in the early 70's
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Apr 24, 2019 13:20:16 GMT
I was two.
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cb25
Posts: 3,528
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Post by cb25 on Apr 24, 2019 13:24:34 GMT
Time for involuntary euthanasia at (say) 50? Less people to drive/fly, less CO2, frees up jobs and houses, solves the NHS Social Care problem... Said in jest, but I think this could be a winner (except, I'd need an exemption as I'm the wrong side of that divide) sorry but that's a no - as cremations are not good for the climate and burials take up to much land "Washington poised to become first state to allow eco-friendly 'human composting'" - eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/04/22/human-composting-washington-legalize-green-burial/3544844002/
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 13:33:11 GMT
Yes that does mean some tough choices, nasty things like reducing the number of flights you have to take and the size of your car, or even don't own a car. Of the 20 million cars in the UK the majority sit still for 95% of the time anyway. Moving to battery or hydrogen is just so obvious and such a car/truck/bus offers all the energy storage we need "in case the wind stops". According to the graphic below, 72% of greenhouse gasses are related to energy production / use, so a bit unfair to pick on the internal combustion engine.
I don't dispute that climate change is happening, but wonder if it is the lesser of 2 evils. As I understand it we are in the warm phase of an ice age, and the return of the ice is overdue. Climate change may result in some low lying countries getting flooded, but if it helps prevent half the northern hemisphere getting covered in a layer of ice a mile thick, then maybe something to be celebrated.
Sorry agent, there is no easy way to say this but 1) energy production is what you need to drive most cars and 2) your second paragraph is frankly nonsense. I would recommend taking a short free MOOC say from www.mooc-list.com/course/energy-environment-and-everyday-life-coursera to find out what the kids are talking about. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 13:37:43 GMT
Its not just about whether you believe or are a denier(and i am all for lower emissions,less plastic ,not destroying forest etc) but how you live your life now and how much you will change and how much you can afford is the problem At the top of the eco protesters tree you have the so called by the media hard line new age vegan hippies who are probably willing to live off the land and follow their principles (yes i know its an over generalization) You then have the people like the lovely family interviewed on the news last week,who in One clip had their children telling us we must save the future by getting rid of cars but sitting in front of a tv with playstation,cable etc underneath and in another clip in the kitchen with a washing machine,dish washer and pod coffee maker etc. And that's part of the problem as people could do more already and just seem fixed on cars and lately also air travel.But how many(even those up Hyde Park) are going to stop charging their lap tops,tablets and phones or turn the heating off and wash their clothes by hand.We used to be a nation of farmers now even in summer half our fruit and veg gets transported Europe (spuds & toms from Poland-why?) so are people willing to go without?and no more fresh fruit from Chile,NZ,South Africa and the rest in winter and.And while unbelievably they are trying to breed lower emission cows,are we all going to go diary free & vegan?how much energy is used by Starbucks and others in processing coffee beans,transporting them and then using leccy to make a Frappuccino so lets knock that on the head and not forgetting the water it wastes.Talking of water and forgetting the plastic bottle how much energy is used in the process and transporting so maybe its back to the tap,you could go on for ever We can do more by building better homes and insulating older properties but is the govt. going to give thousands of pounds to households to change their boiler in One go (assuming there are enough engineers)While its true that nothing gets done by giving up and saying its impossible from the start,it would seem a longer time frame then many want as unless you want to live in a cave then there does seem to be a equal and opposite reaction to a lot of this I suspect that no one is asking you to wash your clothes by hand, but we are asking you to think more carefully about what you buy on a regular basis. Do you need a fat CO2 generating car in your ownership all the time or would you rather use public transport. Does fitting a solar cell on your house make more sense than burning oil to make electricity (especially when solar energy is cheaper than oil generated energy), do you need three holidays abroad by air or could you do three by ferry/train. COnsumption of CO2 generating things will reduce the human habital life of the planet so get with the programme. I suggest a MOOC www.mooc-list.com/course/energy-environment-and-everyday-life-coursera to get with the kids and understand what it is all about.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Apr 24, 2019 14:13:36 GMT
Simply observations of the behaviour of fellow humans, for example the number of SUVs on the road often with a single being on board and houses heated in winter to tee shirt wearing levels, indicate clearly that most folk are unwilling to modify their lifestyle choices to reduce energy consumption or save the planet.
The only way to make progress is to continue to increase taxes on energy consumption and use the money raised to introduce energy saving measures.
Poorer households will need help and, if taxes are not raised uniformly worldwide, tariffs will be required to penalise imports from non-conformant countries.
I suspect that almost no one would "rather use public transport" but people may be coaxed to use more efficient personal transportation methods by taxation and/or subsidy.
Cajoling and education will convince a few but the majority will need to be pushed.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 24, 2019 14:25:24 GMT
...... and houses heated in winter to tee shirt wearing levels.... Ahh yes, one of my favourite lodgers who believed in having the windows wide open in December for "fresh air", and having the heating on full blast because it was cold. Wear a ******* jumper already. ozboy she was Australian 
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cb25
Posts: 3,528
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Post by cb25 on Apr 24, 2019 14:26:53 GMT
Simply observations of the behaviour of fellow humans, for example the number of SUVs on the road often with a single being on board and houses heated in winter to tee shirt wearing levels, indicate clearly that most folk are unwilling to modify their lifestyle choices to reduce energy consumption or save the planet. The only way to make progress is to continue to increase taxes on energy consumption and use the money raised to introduce energy saving measures. Poorer households will need help and, if taxes are not raised uniformly worldwide, tariffs will be required to penalise imports from non-conformant countries. I suspect that almost no one would "rather use public transport" but people may be coaxed to use more efficient personal transportation methods by taxation and/or subsidy. Cajoling and education will convince a few but the majority will need to be pushed. Taxes are clearly not the only way to make progress and they're always going to hit the poor disproportionately hard. That results in an even bigger welfare state/government spend which many will object to.
Simpler for the government to bring in absolute bans on certain products (e.g. most polluting cars) and keep reducing the ceiling every 3-5 years.
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