macq
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Post by macq on Apr 24, 2019 14:41:24 GMT
Its not just about whether you believe or are a denier(and i am all for lower emissions,less plastic ,not destroying forest etc) but how you live your life now and how much you will change and how much you can afford is the problem At the top of the eco protesters tree you have the so called by the media hard line new age vegan hippies who are probably willing to live off the land and follow their principles (yes i know its an over generalization) You then have the people like the lovely family interviewed on the news last week,who in One clip had their children telling us we must save the future by getting rid of cars but sitting in front of a tv with playstation,cable etc underneath and in another clip in the kitchen with a washing machine,dish washer and pod coffee maker etc. And that's part of the problem as people could do more already and just seem fixed on cars and lately also air travel.But how many(even those up Hyde Park) are going to stop charging their lap tops,tablets and phones or turn the heating off and wash their clothes by hand.We used to be a nation of farmers now even in summer half our fruit and veg gets transported Europe (spuds & toms from Poland-why?) so are people willing to go without?and no more fresh fruit from Chile,NZ,South Africa and the rest in winter and.And while unbelievably they are trying to breed lower emission cows,are we all going to go diary free & vegan?how much energy is used by Starbucks and others in processing coffee beans,transporting them and then using leccy to make a Frappuccino so lets knock that on the head and not forgetting the water it wastes.Talking of water and forgetting the plastic bottle how much energy is used in the process and transporting so maybe its back to the tap,you could go on for ever We can do more by building better homes and insulating older properties but is the govt. going to give thousands of pounds to households to change their boiler in One go (assuming there are enough engineers)While its true that nothing gets done by giving up and saying its impossible from the start,it would seem a longer time frame then many want as unless you want to live in a cave then there does seem to be a equal and opposite reaction to a lot of this I suspect that no one is asking you to wash your clothes by hand, but we are asking you to think more carefully about what you buy on a regular basis. Do you need a fat CO2 generating car in your ownership all the time or would you rather use public transport. Does fitting a solar cell on your house make more sense than burning oil to make electricity (especially when solar energy is cheaper than oil generated energy), do you need three holidays abroad by air or could you do three by ferry/train. COnsumption of CO2 generating things will reduce the human habital life of the planet so get with the programme. I suggest a MOOC www.mooc-list.com/course/energy-environment-and-everyday-life-coursera to get with the kids and understand what it is all about. the funny thing is that you seem to have misconstrued the point i was making(probably my fault) But i did say we need to cut back on travel and also travel by goods and there by what we buy on a regular basis.And i did say i am down with the programme ( hopefully that's how the kids say it  )and try to do my bit. We don't use a car and grow some of our fruit and veg but why would you not wash your clothes by hand or get rid of your phone or computer and stop charging the battery until the point all the energy is Green and emission free(the answer is that nearly all of us are selective in what we do).So you have stopped having 3 holidays by air but stlll want to use ferry/train but why not have no holidays or do ferry's/trains not use energy put out emissions or pollute the ocean? But to say the kids understand what its all about is fine until you realise the average teenager would soon change their mind and have another protest march when told they can only charge their phone once a week,and that we are closing down the internet to save all the energy used on computers,servers etc and that McDonalds no longer does burgers and that the fancy training shoes and designer clothes must go up in price as we can't use that cheap energy guzzling plant in China - and on and on
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 24, 2019 14:46:18 GMT
I do hope you don't exhale much... Time for involuntary euthanasia at (say) 50? Less people to drive/fly, less CO2, frees up jobs and houses, solves the NHS Social Care problem... Said in jest, but I think this could be a winner (except, I'd need an exemption as I'm the wrong side of that divide) Afternoon, Thanos Not sure this bunch would agree with you  I believe that discussion will conclude around 3.30am for the really keen.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Apr 24, 2019 14:56:24 GMT
I have read that the next inevitable major volcanic eruption/s will again spew immeasurable filth into the atmosphere in one fell swoop/s, so arguably our puny efforts are futile?
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 24, 2019 15:05:24 GMT
I have read that the next inevitable major volcanic eruption/s will again spew immeasurable filth into the atmosphere in one fell swoop/s, so arguably our puny efforts are futile?
"According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world's volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide."
So in a normal year our puny efforts are about 100 times more impactful that volcanic activity. Still that comes from scientists, who as we know can't be trusted.
And in the short term, more likely that individual volcanic activity has a cooling effect (ash in atmosphere).
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 24, 2019 16:23:36 GMT
Sept 27 suggested for a global (yes, you heard that right, global) general strike.
If you're going to take the day off and go to the beach, best to get your hotel/travel reservation in now.
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 24, 2019 16:26:19 GMT
<snip> the average teenager would soon change their mind and have another protest march when told they can only charge their phone once a week...<snip> Yeah but its about picking the battles which can make a difference. Out of curiosity I just found that an iPhone 6 consumes (or should that be consumed?) about 10.5 Wh to fully charge (according to one source). I just made a mug of tea using my 2.5Kw kettle, and trying to ensure I had as little surplus water as possible. It took about 75s to boil, which by my calculation is about 52Wh (I haven't done a cross check based on volume of water, joules required to get from room temp to boiling etc).
The moral of that story is that I shouldn't worry about charging my phone (even if its not an iPhone 6), but I should consider drinking less tea.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 24, 2019 16:34:05 GMT
If I can't get my iPad to work I'll ask a teenager. In most other matters I'll go to somebody with a bit more experience in life.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 24, 2019 16:40:53 GMT
If I can't get my iPad to work I'll ask a teenager. In most other matters I'll go to somebody with a bit more experience in life. When the XR (Extinction Rebellion) protestors were shown on TV most days last week, I wanted somebody to ask them how specifically they thought society would work under their 'zero carbon by 2025' plan. Most, if not all changes, require a fully functioning capitalist society to generate the money to pay for the changes and yet they seemed very anti-capitalist.
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macq
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Post by macq on Apr 24, 2019 16:47:04 GMT
<snip> the average teenager would soon change their mind and have another protest march when told they can only charge their phone once a week...<snip> Yeah but its about picking the battles which can make a difference. Out of curiosity I just found that an iPhone 6 consumes (or should that be consumed?) about 10.5 Wh to fully charge (according to one source). I just made a mug of tea using my 2.5Kw kettle, and trying to ensure I had as little surplus water as possible. It took about 75s to boil, which by my calculation is about 52Wh (I haven't done a cross check based on volume of water, joules required to get from room temp to boiling etc).
The moral of that story is that I shouldn't worry about charging my phone (even if its not an iPhone 6), but I should consider drinking less tea.
like it  but for a true eco warrior the moral would be you need water to live so ditch the tea and the phone
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Apr 24, 2019 17:06:10 GMT
Greta Thunberg isn't the messiah she is a very naughty truant. Chaperoned everywhere by Luisa Neubauer and used as an unassailable icon by Ingmar Rentzhog, which interviewer is going to challenge a 16 year old teenage girl with pigtails and aspergers that has been brainwashed by her mother from the age of eight? Reducing the message to simplistic black and white isn't going to solve this problem but if it gets more people to behave somewhat more responsibly then perhaps it is justified. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 17:07:03 GMT
None of us have experience of our own species extinction...
Will we prove to be slowly boiled frogs or will we jump out of the water and turn the gas off? I think we will prove to be too stupid and will remain arguing about Porsche while the CO2 climbs.
This is a subject where having ignorance is not an option. Not even "wait and see" makes any sense.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Apr 24, 2019 17:58:00 GMT
None of us have experience of our own species extinction... Will we prove to be slowly boiled frogs or will we jump out of the water and turn the gas off? I think we will prove to be too stupid and will remain arguing about Porsche while the CO2 climbs. This is a subject where having ignorance is not an option. Not even "wait and see" makes any sense. Londoners were regularly extinguished in the 50's winters and now there is an improvement. It took a decade to control those emissions, so vehicle legislation should kick in an improvement soon. ( Being that old I can assert that the local conditions were much more severe, but with less population to suffer them).
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 24, 2019 21:20:58 GMT
None of us have experience of our own species extinction... Will we prove to be slowly boiled frogs .... yet another opportunity to blame the french, apparently....are we on the wrong thread ?
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 24, 2019 21:52:08 GMT
None of us have experience of our own species extinction... Will we prove to be slowly boiled frogs or will we jump out of the water and turn the gas off? I think we will prove to be too stupid and will remain arguing about Porsche while the CO2 climbs. This is a subject where having ignorance is not an option. Not even "wait and see" makes any sense. Londoners were regularly extinguished in the 50's winters Were they setting fire to themselves because they were so cold?
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jj
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Jolly Jammy
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Post by jj on Apr 25, 2019 6:50:00 GMT
3 billion Chinese & Indians with a western lifestyle aspirations. Climate change will only go one way. Even if everyone in the UK takes a blue pill.
Until population control in every country is imposed nothing is going to change. Hope you like the taste of Soylent Green or live under communism.
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)and try to do my bit.
but for a true eco warrior the moral would be you need water to live so ditch the tea and the phone
