kaya
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Post by kaya on Apr 25, 2019 9:58:53 GMT
There are many ways to cull a population. This youtube vid just popped up on my suggestions. David Icke is actually quite popular now!
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 25, 2019 10:05:35 GMT
Sort of confirms my point, the XR mob are as much anti-capitalist as they are eco-warriors. Could the French lend us a few of their police who, when faced with a similar demonstration outside SocGen (bank?), pepper sprayed the demonstrators. Way to go guys!
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Shows that 'imbedded' CO2 production has risen, i.e. CO2 production in country of origin of imported goods (e.g. we buy Chinese goods, they produce the CO2, we get the benefits of the goods, they get shamed as a CO2 producer). Goes with the UK economy moving from manufacturing to services.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Apr 25, 2019 13:35:32 GMT
Londoners were regularly extinguished in the 50's winters and now there is an improvement. It took a decade to control those emissions, so vehicle legislation should kick in an improvement soon. ( Being that old I can assert that the local conditions were much more severe, but with less population to suffer them). London's population was higher from the 30s to the 50s than it is now. Would you like to qualify that.
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Post by martin44 on Apr 29, 2019 21:35:10 GMT
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Post by martin44 on Apr 29, 2019 22:05:14 GMT
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 30, 2019 8:53:46 GMT
Article "Let’s seize the moment and create a Green New Deal for the UK" in the Guardian ( here) shows one of the problems with addressing climate change - that people want to include their favoured social change with it e.g. "Green jobs must be secure and decently paid, with a central role for trade unions in a just transition for all workers and communities affected" |
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Post by captainconfident on Apr 30, 2019 9:12:45 GMT
Article "Let’s seize the moment and create a Green New Deal for the UK" in the Guardian ( here) shows one of the problems with addressing climate change - that people want to include their favoured social change with it e.g. "Green jobs must be secure and decently paid, with a central role for trade unions in a just transition for all workers and communities affected" Yeah, simply tax carbon emissions so that they are priced into all goods and services, and nobody gets their chance to advance their interest group and the good-hearted who modify their habits are not at a disadvantage to the selfish.
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 30, 2019 9:26:39 GMT
Article "Let’s seize the moment and create a Green New Deal for the UK" in the Guardian ( here) shows one of the problems with addressing climate change - that people want to include their favoured social change with it e.g. "Green jobs must be secure and decently paid, Sorry but that is a silly statement to (say its one of the problems with addressing). Of course some people want to include their favoured social change with it. Some people what to include THEIR (different) favoured social change. Some don't. That is just "life" - people will tack on their own agendas. So what ? conclude that therefore its somehow "special" in that regard and hence its too difficult to do ?? In the scheme of problems associated with tackling climate change, the fact that some people have other agenda's they want to tack on is down in the trivia.
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scc
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Post by scc on Apr 30, 2019 10:28:38 GMT
Article "Let’s seize the moment and create a Green New Deal for the UK" in the Guardian ( here) shows one of the problems with addressing climate change - that people want to include their favoured social change with it e.g. "Green jobs must be secure and decently paid, with a central role for trade unions in a just transition for all workers and communities affected" While I'm a member of a union, I don't think I'd give them a central role in anything really. People can try to attach whatever they like to the problem of climate change, but it doesn't mean they should be listened to and nor does it invalidate trying to tackle it. Other flavours of the future are available.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 30, 2019 10:39:53 GMT
If the UK is going to be successful on climate change, I think they're going to need all-party support.
They could start by either -cancelling plans for a new runway at Heathrow and/or -determining the CO2 emissions from UK originated flights, then tell the industry they need to reduce that by (say) 10% per year. Do it themselves, or the government will simply cancel slots in order to force the reduction.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 30, 2019 16:03:50 GMT
If the UK is going to be successful on climate change, I think they're going to need all-party support.
They could start by either -cancelling plans for a new runway at Heathrow and/or -determining the CO2 emissions from UK originated flights, then tell the industry they need to reduce that by (say) 10% per year. Do it themselves, or the government will simply cancel slots in order to force the reduction.
Or just replace all the parties with the green party. Can't see that happening
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pip
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Post by pip on Apr 30, 2019 16:21:47 GMT
Here are a few of my thoughts:
- As others have noted climate change protesters almost always seem to also be anti-capitalist. They see destroying the capitalist model as also destroying greed and therefore will allow consumption and emissions to fall. This makes a lot of errors in logic, firstly you could nationalise all companies but you would do nothing to remove the reality that most people are inherently self serving. Maybe nationalising all companies would help lead to such an economic collapse that peoples spending power would reduce to an extent that their emissions fall.
- Surely a big way to reduce emissions would be to increase tariffs to reduce the transportation of goods and deliver items closer to where the consumer is.
- Most professors and scientists who study climate change are also very left leaning. Solutions almost always involve more taxes and a transfer of wealth from rich to poor. It's hard to know how much these suggestions are driven by climate change science or their political leaning.
- Personally not sure how much climate change will effect my life. Maybe I am wrong but when I go outside it seems fine to me. A few degrees here or there I can't see making a huge difference. To me I have not seen a noticeable difference in the weather to impact the quality of my life. Maybe I am just terribly selfish as others may be affected more than me, but to me I just can't see it.
- For me I would like far more focus to be put on saving areas of natural beauty from being built on and preserving habitats. Maybe its just because its more noticeable but rainforest destruction seems to be something that I would like more focus on.
- Lets say that global warming will have a big negative effect and its caused by us, question is really is there any way we can change it? To get the level of change required to stop it in peoples lives will almost certainly be impossible without imposing a worldwide dictatorship and martial law. I just think we may do some things round the edges, but can't see people accepting huge changes to their lives until they are forced to.
- Maybe I am wrong but a lot of people who claim to be 'green' don't seem to know much about nature and their actions seem very confused. We have somehow confused being good for the environment with buying £10 bars of ethical chocolate from Bolivia in a market stall in Brixton, drinking craft beer all while still going on holiday on planes. Not wanting to blow my own green credentials too much, but I keep bees and amazed how many people who claim to be green have no appreciation or understanding of things that are actually hugely good for the environment.
- Maybe some people who are inherently work shy and lazy use the reality that this lifestyle by its nature tends to allow the person to have low emissions some excuse for their lifestyle. A lot of work shy people seem bizarrely angry with people that work, I suspect mostly due to resentment at their own failings, and climate change gives such people a nice stick to beat others, who are just living their lives, with.
- From what I see from the emissions targets we are focusing on the wrong areas. A lot of focus seems to be placed on the emissions of cars and planes, but really farming seems to give off far more emissions. But then I get confused, so err should we just cull all the animals on the planet? I thought we had done a bad thing deforesting animals habitats and killing tigers. But if most emissions come from animals maybe we should be the friend of a poacher.
- Finally climate change and general 'green' taxes seem a good way to tax people by stealth. Tax people on their fuel, on their energy bills, on their waste disposal etc. etc. Yes we are taxing you but its good for the planet, end result is more of the money people have to feed their family is taken by the tax man. And a lot of these taxes are really not progressive either, people on low incomes spend a far greater % of their incomes on petrol.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 16:32:48 GMT
Your suggestion that the people in this group are left leaning is not supported by evidence, in fact the police said this was one of the hardest things to police as every one was so middle class and pleasant, well dressed etc, "it is hard to be aggressive against protesters who are apologising all the time". Those I know on the event were pretty wealthy and or with well paid jobs.
While the demonstrators in France the police have to deal with are far more aggi-trotts. Hence the violence.
I understand that stupidity is not limited to one class or one political leaning but since climate change will affect all humans and very certainly all animals is there just a chance we could turn off our pre-conceived opinions, do a little reading and start to think how to turnoff this CO2 stuff while also maximising the quality of life?
Frankly how anyone could claim to have the faintest science knowledge but cannot understand what is happening is beyond me, however there are some pretty poor schools in this country so maybe....
I also suggest you read the section on boiled frogs above, the process is happening slowly so you cannot see it,it does not mean that nothing is happening. Your theory that perhaps we can save "some nice bits" runs in the face of both science and even basic logic, once you realise we are talking about a climate mass, not Kew Gardens.
Once again weather is not climate.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 30, 2019 16:46:06 GMT
I'm not sure our government believes in climate change because, if they didn't, why would they be supporting another runway at Heathrow?
Whilst there are flights available, people are going to fly, so governments can either stop the flights (e.g. reduce the number of slots) or price the flights so that demand is lowered (sure it'll go down well when poor people are priced out of flying but the rich aren't)
re "Your suggestion that the people in this group are left leaning is not supported by evidence, in fact the police said this was one of the hardest things to police as every one was so middle class and pleasant, well dressed etc, "it is hard to be aggressive against protesters who are apologising all the time". Those I know on the event were pretty wealthy and or with well paid job". Reads as though the protestors couldn't be left leaning as they were middle class, pleasant and well dressed. I wasn't aware the two were mutually exclusive.
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pip
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Post by pip on Apr 30, 2019 16:49:07 GMT
Your suggestion that the people in this group are left leaning is not supported by evidence, in fact the police said this was one of the hardest things to police as every one was so middle class and pleasant, well dressed etc, "it is hard to be aggressive against protesters who are apologising all the time". Those I know on the event were pretty wealthy and or with well paid jobs.
While the demonstrators in France the police have to deal with are far more aggi-trotts. Hence the violence.
I understand that stupidity is not limited to one class or one political leaning but since climate change will affect all humans and very certainly all animals is there just a chance we could turn off our pre-conceived opinions, do a little reading and start to think how to turnoff this CO2 stuff while also maximising the quality of life?
Frankly how anyone could claim to have the faintest science knowledge but cannot understand what is happening is beyond me, however there are some pretty poor schools in this country so maybe....
"Your suggestion that the people in this group are left leaning is not supported by evidence" - OK if you were there and you got a different impression fair enough. Many of the people I saw were calling for an overthrow to capitalism as part of the solution and were holding Socialist Workers banners. I accept that people may have come from a diverse background and held different political views. I suspect most were left leaning though, but if I am wrong I apologise. "climate change will affect all humans and very certainly all animals is there just a chance we could turn off our pre-conceived opinions, do a little reading and start to think how to turnoff this CO2 stuff while also maximising the quality of life?" - OK I think what you are saying here is I have done a bit of research, I am worried about the impact of Co2 emissions, I think everybody should be and therefore people should abandon their views and think like me. Are you as open minded to you being wrong, not just about climate change but every other issue as you are asking others to be. I find that most people are irrationally attached to their own views and when they say others should turn off their pre-conceived ideas, this normally is getting a bit tyrannical for my liking. "Frankly how anyone could claim to have the faintest science knowledge but cannot understand what is happening is beyond me, however there are some pretty poor schools in this country so maybe...." - The climate is probably one of the most complex areas of science. I don't think anything taught in schools or even most degrees would get close to allowing somebody to understand the science of the climate. You seem confident in your scientific understanding, is this based on your own scientific knowledge or what others have told you? If its the former, fair play to you couldn't hope to debate you on the topic as I have only GCSE science  . If its the latter then fine, but still think its dangerous to insult other scientists who have a different opinion. I am not saying climate change isn't happening or the consensus of scientists is wrong, I have no idea, but I do think that its probably easier, and better paid, if as a scientist you follow the established line in this area. As I said its a complex area of science and for us to just not allow debate in the area I feel doesn't help anybody.
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. If its the latter then fine, but still think its dangerous to insult other scientists who have a different opinion. I am not saying climate change isn't happening or the consensus of scientists is wrong, I have no idea, but I do think that its probably easier, and better paid, if as a scientist you follow the established line in this area. As I said its a complex area of science and for us to just not allow debate in the area I feel doesn't help anybody.