registerme
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Post by registerme on Oct 12, 2020 10:30:33 GMT
So, the flu jab. Seeing as they're going to get n million people in for them why don't the take the opportunity to do an antibody test at the same time?
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Post by dan1 on Oct 12, 2020 11:22:22 GMT
So, the flu jab. Seeing as they're going to get n million people in for them why don't the take the opportunity to do an antibody test at the same time? Why an antibody test and not a swab for PCR testing? Isn't it more important to catch pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic cases and get positive cases and their contacts to self-isolate as well as offering them the practical support they require? I assume the answer to both would be that the NHS simply don't have the resources to process those tests (even utilising group testing techniques).
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 12, 2020 11:33:08 GMT
So, the flu jab. Seeing as they're going to get n million people in for them why don't the take the opportunity to do an antibody test at the same time? Makes a lot of sense, however, according to the government "Antibody test kits are not widely available" but you can register for one.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 12, 2020 15:24:40 GMT
I must admit my view does fluctuate a fair bit but one constant is a dislike of the scientific community presenting evidence and projections as close to fact. I also very much dislike a lot of what the government is doing/has done but the bottom line is if your scientists tell you X thousand people might die if you don't do Y then they have to do it.Somebody, some adult in the room, needs to really attempt to consider all this in the round. They need to weigh up not just economic costs but also other deaths, lack of health, eduction, social stress, mental health etc etc vs deaths from covid. They also need stop presenting figures in a certain way to support their policies. Of course the scientists focus 100% on direct deaths from covd but someone, i.e. the government should be able to see the full picture. .. michaelc : I struggle with this post. It seems to contain its own self-contradictions.
The "adult in the room" has to be the politicians (sadly, given our current bunch)
Firstly, I'm sure the 'scientists' are not presenting "hard facts". They will be presenting a set of scenarios. Secondly, we know - because they have said so directly - - that the collateral damage in the form of missed opportunities to treat other diseases, mental health, education etc. etc. are very much in their mind. They have said so publicly, and with so many different domains represented at SAGE then it will be so.
It is not the scientists 'policies'. All they can do is give best guess of outcomes of the varying mitigating steps that can be taken.
The adult in the room as you put it that has to consider everything in the round, especially the economic damage, because that is very much their balliwick, is the political body. It cannot and shouldn't be any other way. It is the political body that has to weigh up 'in the round' and make the decisions [edit] as to their policies (based on the information and views they have considered).
You seem to be suggesting that you would prefer it if the 'scientists' watered down their message so as to either make it easier for the politicians, or to in essence be making the decision for them by not presenting them with their true views.
Yes I see now the apparent contradiction you highlighted - it was badly expressed. I should have said that at the start of the pandemic back in March ish it would be difficult for any government to ignore advice like that. I agree the adult in room ought to the the government and other elected bodies such as councils, majors etc but mainly the government. It is not for the scientists to weigh the negative effects of the pandemic vs the positive ones. I did not mean to suggest that scientists should water down their message. I am suggesting that some of them are exaggerating it. It is also clear many of the top scientists do not agree. For those reasons, the government should be careful who they listen to (perhaps the more the better) and should use the scientific input as one of many inputs in making decisions. It is my feeling that not only have they given too much weight to one part of the scientific community at the exclusion of all else which has led to a sheep like response "...ok ok yes how many tens of thousands did you say?....oh yes and france, germany etc they're also locking down....yes....seems like the sensible response........" but they have also been totally inept in its various implementations. World beating apps, track and trace, etc etc, home testing taking many days (as shown in this thread). Even mask wearing was a shambles to start with - do we really have to wait until the WHO changes its advice? Don't we have some advice of our own?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 12, 2020 15:40:49 GMT
So, my experience of Track and Trace to date:- 1. Lodger decided (and I agreed) that her symptoms warranted requesting a test on Thursday the 1st October (ie she'd developed a cough, but not "continuous" the day before). She's a bit of a sicknote, and always complaining about various aches, pains, ailments etc, so that decision was always likely to be subject to "extra noise". 2. Test arrived, I think, on Tuesday the 6th October - ie it took too long to arrive. 3. I put her completed "test pack" in the post that afternoon and that was the last time I left the house (I think the last time lodger left the house was maybe Monday the 28th September?). 4. Test result was provided, I think by email, on Friday the 9th October. 5. NHS Track and Trace made multiple attempts to contact her, none of which worked for one reason or another (eg the interview takes 30mins+ but she had just started cooking dinner or something). The multiple attempts is good. The fact that you cannot call them back is bad. 6. The interview finally took place this afternoon, the 11th October (ie they are working weekends). Within minutes I had received a text message from NHS Track and Trace asking to register on an NHS site and answer some basic questions. The speed of this follow up was excellent. The site also contained a lot of information if you were vulnerable, or unable to get support etc, which was also good. 7. I was told I had to self-isolate until the 14th October. Which is three days away, and five days after I started to isolate. To summarise:- Time to deliver test BAD Test turn around GOOD Multiple attempts to contact lodger GOOD Inability for her to contact Test and Trace BAD Fast follow up with me GOOD Helpful information provided GOOD The lag introduced by time to develop symptoms + time to decide they warrant testing + time to receive test is.... awkward, though I am not sure much can be done about it apart from improving the time to deliver tests. It devalues subsequent efforts unless people, like we did, take the decision to isolate from the date of test request, but even then..... Overall it worked simply. It just didn't work quickly. The two obvious points to improve here are test delivery times and being able to have the interview with Track and Trace at your convenience rather than theirs. Still, no symptoms to speak of to report (does a sort throat for an hour count?) on my side and I can leave the house on Wednesday . Neighbours have been great in terms of doing shopping, particular of the red liquid in a bottle sort! Think I deserve a pint come Wednesday night. EDIT: I suppose some of the value here is in following up with contacts of hers who aren't as "close" to her as I was. It's really only because we live in the same house that I was able to act / react as I did. Had I been, say, a friend of a friend who spent some time with her in a bar or a restaurant the whole process might actually add more value. www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsbirmingham/teacher-at-bewdley-school-has-covid-19-but-five-classes-taught-aren-e2-80-99t-self-isolating-heres-why/ar-BB19STyIIn a school setting, it is a total different experience. The parents may only be told via a letter. Imagine those parents who rarely check the letterbox
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Post by dan1 on Oct 12, 2020 18:04:59 GMT
Fish 'n chips and 8 pints of lager please
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 12, 2020 18:18:49 GMT
So, the flu jab. Seeing as they're going to get n million people in for them why don't the take the opportunity to do an antibody test at the same time? Makes a lot of sense, however, according to the government "Antibody test kits are not widely available" but you can register for one. then register me
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Oct 12, 2020 20:23:54 GMT
Fish 'n chips and 8 pints of lager please Have you been stalking me on Fridays?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 12, 2020 20:37:17 GMT
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Oct 12, 2020 20:43:45 GMT
For once they actually state this: "But amid the near-hysteria focused on Covid, it should not be forgotten that this is also true of many other viral and bacterial infections." It should not be forgotten, but it absolutely almost always is. The vast majority of the effects are non-specific, not that that sells newspapers or gets doctors/other scientists their fame.
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Post by dan1 on Oct 12, 2020 21:01:35 GMT
Absolutely, such as driving to Barnard Castle
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 12, 2020 21:06:19 GMT
For once they actually state this: "But amid the near-hysteria focused on Covid, it should not be forgotten that this is also true of many other viral and bacterial infections." It should not be forgotten, but it absolutely almost always is. The vast majority of the effects are non-specific, not that that sells newspapers or gets doctors/other scientists their fame. And that is part of the problem we face IMO.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 13, 2020 8:57:41 GMT
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Oct 13, 2020 9:21:49 GMT
Track and Trace just contacted me to make sure I was being a good little boy - no idea how they'd be able to confirm this or not, or what they could do if I simply lied to them.
Anyway, the lady was charming.
And antibody tests aren't generally available to the public yet.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 13, 2020 9:24:31 GMT
Track and Trace just contacted me to make sure I was being a good little boy - no idea how they'd be able to confirm this or not, or what they could do if I simply lied to them. Anyway, the lady was charming. And antibody tests aren't generally available to the public yet. I don't understand why they don't even check people with the latest tech. 🤦♂️ When Hermes delivers a parcel, it provides a pic and GEO data. Surely they could do a video call and double check with geo data.
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