agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,945
Likes: 4,382
|
Post by agent69 on Dec 5, 2020 20:43:18 GMT
assuming the vaccination works, whats the problem with certain covidiots not having the vaccine.... 10 people in a room, 8 have been vaccinated 2 haven't.. the two idiots can only infect each other. Or to scale it up a bit, 60 million people in the country who are vaccinatable, 48 million get vaccinated, so the idiots can infect themselves or the 2.5 million people that the vaccine didn't work for.
I'm not in favour of forced vaccination, but I think incentivised vaccination is definately the way to go.
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,333
Likes: 2,753
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Dec 5, 2020 20:50:54 GMT
Forced vaccination is never going to happen in this country, other countries maybe, look at MMR for children which really should be compulsory (ducks) but it really is a no brainer.
|
|
|
Post by martin44 on Dec 5, 2020 21:13:21 GMT
assuming the vaccination works, whats the problem with certain covidiots not having the vaccine.... 10 people in a room, 8 have been vaccinated 2 haven't.. the two idiots can only infect each other. Or to scale it up a bit, 60 million people in the country who are vaccinatable, 48 million get vaccinated, so the idiots can infect themselves or the 2.5 million people that the vaccine didn't work for.
I'm not in favour of forced vaccination, but I think incentivised vaccination is definately the way to go.
better to vaccinate the people.
|
|
|
Post by dan1 on Dec 5, 2020 21:30:27 GMT
Not everyone will be able to take a vaccine and so those that are able to and do get vaccinated protect those who can't. e.g. those with allergies who risk anaphylactic shock. I guess there's not much point vaccinating someone who is severely immunocompromised because they're far less likely to mount the immune response the vaccine is designed to trigger. Then you have those groups for which vaccination is not recommended - pregnant women (½ - 1 million at any one time I guess?) and children in which little/no data exists from clinical trials.
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Dec 5, 2020 21:42:47 GMT
Forced vaccination is never going to happen in this country, other countries maybe, look at MMR for children which really should be compulsory (ducks) but it really is a no brainer. No need to duck. This is not about the rights of the kids to refuse MMR, its about the rights of the parents to refuse on their behalf. What should be more important: the rights of the parents or the rights of the children to have a treatment that will prevent them from the risk of seriousness and potentially life changing illness ? Society already has norms which put the rights of children above those of their parents in the name of protecting the children. Parents can be taken to court and fined for taking their kids out of school during term time, but we can't find a way to do similar for immunisation ? Forcing adults to be vaccinated is a different ball game. The argument being they are responsible/grown up (stupid) enough to make the decision to not participate. But that could/should come with penalties: if you are not prepared to be part of the solution, then you have to agree to not be part of the problem: i.e. have access to a bunch of things which are particularly high risk for transmission, pubs, university, restaurants, cinemas etc. Obviously exemptions for those who for medical reasons not able to be vaccinated: indeed policies to maximise the %age of the population work towards helping to protect them.
|
|
|
Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Dec 5, 2020 22:00:27 GMT
Those that don't want to be vaccinated or those who just don't get vaccinated - why can't they have their own cinemas and pubs etc. Assuming the risk is made clear to them
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,431
Likes: 2,899
|
Post by michaelc on Dec 5, 2020 22:21:47 GMT
Those that don't want to be vaccinated or those who just don't get vaccinated - why can't they have their own cinemas and pubs etc. Assuming the risk is made clear to them That could actually be an outcome if pubs were allowed to discriminate entry based on vaccination status. Many/most pubs might insist on it but that might open a gap in the market for "free pubs" ("Two pints of bitter, a packet of crisps and a dose of covid please"). Those "free pubs" might in fact be largely populated by the unvaccinated since they have nowhere else to go leading to the scenario you suggest.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,618
Likes: 5,032
|
Post by adrianc on Dec 5, 2020 23:15:07 GMT
I have no problem with companies denying access to their services based upon vaccination though. (pubs, planes etc) The problem there is that it puts the compliance onto people who simply aren't qualified or paid for it. Is the minimum wage guy on Sainsbury's door going to be checking paperwork and refusing entry? Of course not.
|
|
mrk
Posts: 807
Likes: 753
|
Post by mrk on Dec 6, 2020 12:26:38 GMT
I wonder if the Covid-19 vaccines will be added to the list of those covered by the £120,000 Vaccine Damage Payment. I guess not, since the Eligibility requirements explicitly exclude "a pandemic" for the flu one.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,431
Likes: 2,899
|
Post by michaelc on Dec 6, 2020 16:52:27 GMT
I have no problem with companies denying access to their services based upon vaccination though. (pubs, planes etc) The problem there is that it puts the compliance onto people who simply aren't qualified or paid for it. Is the minimum wage guy on Sainsbury's door going to be checking paperwork and refusing entry? Of course not. No, with respect, I think you're talking about something different. I think you're talking about the case where checking is mandated by law such as the current wearing of masks. I'm talking about a case where companies choose to deny access. If Tesco makes a business decision to deny access it obviously believes it has no problem with enforcing that policy. That is quite different to it being told to do so.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,618
Likes: 5,032
|
Post by adrianc on Dec 6, 2020 16:55:18 GMT
The problem there is that it puts the compliance onto people who simply aren't qualified or paid for it. Is the minimum wage guy on Sainsbury's door going to be checking paperwork and refusing entry? Of course not. No, with respect, I think you're talking about something different. I think you're talking about the case where checking is mandated by law such as the current wearing of masks. I'm talking about a case where companies choose to deny access. If Tesco makes a business decision to deny access it obviously believes it has no problem with enforcing that policy. That is quite different to it being told to do so. Not in terms of enforcement it isn't. If they're trying to stop somebody coming in, does it make a difference if the basis for that is "We don't want to let you in" or "It would be illegal for you to come in"? Remember all the supermarkets said "We aren't going to enforce masks, it's too hard and too risky for our staff", and that's a damn sight more obvious to enforce than requesting vaccination paperwork...
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,333
Likes: 2,753
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Dec 6, 2020 20:23:49 GMT
No, with respect, I think you're talking about something different. I think you're talking about the case where checking is mandated by law such as the current wearing of masks. I'm talking about a case where companies choose to deny access. If Tesco makes a business decision to deny access it obviously believes it has no problem with enforcing that policy. That is quite different to it being told to do so. Not in terms of enforcement it isn't. If they're trying to stop somebody coming in, does it make a difference if the basis for that is "We don't want to let you in" or "It would be illegal for you to come in"? Remember all the supermarkets said "We aren't going to enforce masks, it's too hard and too risky for our staff", and that's a damn sight more obvious to enforce than requesting vaccination paperwork... hopefully if enough (sensible) people have been vaccinated it really doesn't matter about the unvaccinated eventually they can only infect each other.
|
|
daveb
Member of DD Central
Posts: 244
Likes: 201
|
Post by daveb on Dec 6, 2020 21:37:01 GMT
Interesting podcast on vaccines on the "Dan Snow History Hit" series not long ago. The interviewee talked about the polio vaccine history too. It sounds as though scaling up production will be a challenge, and QAing a biological product like a vaccine more difficult than for eg an antibiotic. It sounds as though the scale of testing the covid vaccines is pretty comparable with other vaccines, ie a few 10s of thousands each, and that problems with other vaccines were generally manifest in the 2 months since the trials started. I'd have the vaccine like a shot, my main concern is how long it will take to get 50 million doses ready for the UK.
|
|
|
Post by moonraker on Dec 7, 2020 7:58:03 GMT
hopefully if enough (sensible) people have been vaccinated it really doesn't matter about the unvaccinated eventually they can only infect each other. It may be the case that the vaccinated could still transmit the virus to the unvaccinated - and indeed the vaccinated. Moderna chief's warning.
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Dec 7, 2020 8:48:26 GMT
Not in terms of enforcement it isn't. If they're trying to stop somebody coming in, does it make a difference if the basis for that is "We don't want to let you in" or "It would be illegal for you to come in"? Remember all the supermarkets said "We aren't going to enforce masks, it's too hard and too risky for our staff", and that's a damn sight more obvious to enforce than requesting vaccination paperwork... hopefully if enough (sensible) people have been vaccinated it really doesn't matter about the unvaccinated eventually they can only infect each other. including those that CAN'T be vaccinated for health reasons, or for whom vaccines simply won't work for same reasons. Those who CHOOSE not to be vaccinated are by definition not just endangering their ilk, but others who have not had the choice. Which is not itself a manifesto for enforcement, but it is an manifesto to place a level of social (ir)responsibility on those who take such a decision.
|
|