IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 10, 2021 19:43:11 GMT
My main comment on the generation discussion is that we are asking a lot more from our youth than from our elderly. This is a disease that essentially doesn't affect young people and yet we are asking them to radically change their lives, their education and their free time to save the lives of the elderly. That is the right thing to do of course but we should be mindful of that. We should also realise that those who make these decisions are typically elderly themselves. Even though its the right thing to do we should actually be grateful for the help of the young. We are not asking the elderly to do anything other than save their own lives so no gratitude needed there. I'm nearly 50 and also see myself as inbetween. (No doubt I'll still see myself that way when I hit 55, 60 etc.... ) And don't forget that the older generation have already hoarded the money, spent the North Sea Oil dividend, benefitted from huge property price appreciation - whilst now expecting the younger generation to pay higher taxes to pay off the accumulated deficit (and don't dare suggest any changes to inheritance tax), whilst being unable to afford to buy property - and having also just taken away their highly valued EU citizenship and freedom of movement in their continent. I'd probably feel like raving to forget about having been royally shafted by the oldies too. Not saying its right, but I do think the older generation tutting away ignores many of the longer term intergenerational issues.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 10, 2021 19:55:29 GMT
Students also got completely shafted by the Universities (and the Government, and "life" itself). Were I in my early twenties right now I'd be furious with pretty much everybody over the age of forty.
Patronising them, and treating them with contempt is really, really not going to help.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 10, 2021 19:59:41 GMT
My main comment on the generation discussion is that we are asking a lot more from our youth than from our elderly. This is a disease that essentially doesn't affect young people and yet we are asking them to radically change their lives, their education and their free time to save the lives of the elderly. That is the right thing to do of course but we should be mindful of that. We should also realise that those who make these decisions are typically elderly themselves. Even though its the right thing to do we should actually be grateful for the help of the young. We are not asking the elderly to do anything other than save their own lives so no gratitude needed there. I'm nearly 50 and also see myself as inbetween. (No doubt I'll still see myself that way when I hit 55, 60 etc.... ) And don't forget that the older generation have already hoarded the money, spent the North Sea Oil dividend, benefitted from huge property price appreciation - whilst now expecting the younger generation to pay higher taxes to pay off the accumulated deficit (and don't dare suggest any changes to inheritance tax), whilst being unable to afford to buy property - and having also just taken away their highly valued EU citizenship and freedom of movement in their continent. I'd probably feel like raving to forget about having been royally shafted by the oldies too. Not saying its right, but I do think the older generation tutting away ignores many of the longer term intergenerational issues. This is their parents you are talking about, also known as bank of Mum and Dad!
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 10, 2021 20:25:39 GMT
Figure due tomorrow & daily thereafter Hancock suggested its about 2m which would put is around 2.9% See the Israelis have offered to act as a giant data lab to get Pfizer to speed up deliveries as they were starting to run out and would have had to curtail the speed of the program otherwise.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 10, 2021 21:10:57 GMT
My main comment on the generation discussion is that we are asking a lot more from our youth than from our elderly. This is a disease that essentially doesn't affect young people and yet we are asking them to radically change their lives, their education and their free time to save the lives of the elderly. That is the right thing to do of course but we should be mindful of that. We should also realise that those who make these decisions are typically elderly themselves. Even though its the right thing to do we should actually be grateful for the help of the young. We are not asking the elderly to do anything other than save their own lives so no gratitude needed there. I'm nearly 50 and also see myself as inbetween. (No doubt I'll still see myself that way when I hit 55, 60 etc.... ) And don't forget that the older generation have already hoarded the money, spent the North Sea Oil dividend, benefitted from huge property price appreciation - whilst now expecting the younger generation to pay higher taxes to pay off the accumulated deficit (and don't dare suggest any changes to inheritance tax), whilst being unable to afford to buy property - and having also just taken away their highly valued EU citizenship and freedom of movement in their continent. I'd probably feel like raving to forget about having been royally shafted by the oldies too. Not saying its right, but I do think the older generation tutting away ignores many of the longer term intergenerational issues. And therin lies the irony of it all (it's a bit like the song about a hole in a bucket):
- young people are contributing significantly to the spread of the virus
- the spread of the virus is causing lockdown
- lockdown is causing the national debt to skyrocket
- national debt will have to be paid off by young people
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 10, 2021 21:15:47 GMT
Students also got completely shafted by the Universities (and the Government, and "life" itself). Were I in my early twenties right now I'd be furious with pretty much everybody over the age of forty. Patronising them, and treating them with contempt is really, really not going to help.
An investigation has been launched by Devon & Cornwall Police and the University of Exeter after a video circulated on social media showing a large party that took place at a student halls of residence. A video shared on Instagram shows a room packed with what is reportedly first-year students. The party reportedly took place at Lafrowda, which is one of the University's own on-campus accommodation buildings off St German's Road. In the video believed to have been filmed on Saturday night, there are dozens of students dancing and partying with no regard for any of the Covid-19 regulations currently in place in England.
If all the universities in the country had expelled people for this sort of carry on when it first started back in September, it would have stopped it happening a long time ago.
Edit: this is the same Exeter University where students in halls of residents had banners in the windows saying 'F*** the virus'
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 10, 2021 21:50:05 GMT
That's a fair question. I don't think there's a perfect answer, but.... 1. I'd not charge them ten thousand pounds a year (or whatever it is nowadays) for a bait and switch educational / life / social experience that they won't subsequently receive. 2. I'd not lock them in after asking them to come to uni for the term, knowing that halls of residence were going to be hotbeds of transmission. 3. I'd provide them with decent food, not the rubbish pack lunches that too many received (at least at the start). 4. I'd expect breaches such as the one you link above where tens or hundreds of people are locked in a building with limited opportunity to exercise, socialise, work or play etc. I also don't think the behaviour seen would be materially different if the people we're talking about were 30, or 40, or 50. And it would only be different for older age groups because they're basically not up to it anymore. 5. I'd have a coherent, consistent, policy that didn't change, seemingly on a whim (as with schools). 6. I'd treat them as adults, and I'd expect them to behave that way. 7. Where they don't I'd sanction them under the law as appropriate. 8. But I would have done everything in my power to ensure that it wasn't going to be a problem in the first place, something the government and the unis have failed to do. Just think how different it would have been if the government had told the universities "refund the students their fees and their rents, we'll cover the cost, and introduce as much remote learning as you can as quickly as you can". agent69 you consistently call out and demonise student behaviour and / or the behaviour of young people. Could you be in danger of cherry picking your stories to support your... dislike... of students (I did have a look for data about age distribution of COVID lockdown related fines data but couldn't find any)? Confine thousands of non-convict civilians across the country to their quarters, charge them for it, limit their opportunity to do anything, don't employ prison guards, and then be surprised when they decide to have some fun? Really?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 10, 2021 21:56:39 GMT
Figure due tomorrow & daily thereafter Hancock suggested its about 2m which would put is around 2.9% See the Israelis have offered to act as a giant data lab to get Pfizer to speed up deliveries as they were starting to run out and would have had to curtail the speed of the program otherwise. All citizens by the end of March. Ok they're a much smaller country but still something to look up to IMO. (Just gloss over the bit about how they're treating their arab residents but nothing new there)
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jan 10, 2021 22:29:02 GMT
And don't forget that the older generation have already hoarded the money, spent the North Sea Oil dividend, benefitted from huge property price appreciation - whilst now expecting the younger generation to pay higher taxes to pay off the accumulated deficit (and don't dare suggest any changes to inheritance tax), whilst being unable to afford to buy property - and having also just taken away their highly valued EU citizenship and freedom of movement in their continent. I'd probably feel like raving to forget about having been royally shafted by the oldies too. Not saying its right, but I do think the older generation tutting away ignores many of the longer term intergenerational issues. This is their parents you are talking about, also known as bank of Mum and Dad! some of their parents, but perhaps even more their grandparents and many of the mums and dads have a well advanced SKI plan ("spend the kids inheritance") - I know mine does!
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 11, 2021 14:04:07 GMT
That's a fair question. I don't think there's a perfect answer, but.... 1. I'd not charge them ten thousand pounds a year (or whatever it is nowadays) for a bait and switch educational / life / social experience that they won't subsequently receive. 2. I'd not lock them in after asking them to come to uni for the term, knowing that halls of residence were going to be hotbeds of transmission. 3. I'd provide them with decent food, not the rubbish pack lunches that too many received (at least at the start). 4. I'd expect breaches such as the one you link above where tens or hundreds of people are locked in a building with limited opportunity to exercise, socialise, work or play etc. I also don't think the behaviour seen would be materially different if the people we're talking about were 30, or 40, or 50. And it would only be different for older age groups because they're basically not up to it anymore. 5. I'd have a coherent, consistent, policy that didn't change, seemingly on a whim (as with schools). 6. I'd treat them as adults, and I'd expect them to behave that way. 7. Where they don't I'd sanction them under the law as appropriate. 8. But I would have done everything in my power to ensure that it wasn't going to be a problem in the first place, something the government and the unis have failed to do. Just think how different it would have been if the government had told the universities "refund the students their fees and their rents, we'll cover the cost, and introduce as much remote learning as you can as quickly as you can". agent69 you consistently call out and demonise student behaviour and / or the behaviour of young people. Could you be in danger of cherry picking your stories to support your... dislike... of students (I did have a look for data about age distribution of COVID lockdown related fines data but couldn't find any)? Confine thousands of non-convict civilians across the country to their quarters, charge them for it, limit their opportunity to do anything, don't employ prison guards, and then be surprised when they decide to have some fun? Really? Isn't that the exact same situation that exists with elderly / high risk people, only they generally keep to the rules?
I refer to students more often than other groups as they appear in the media more often. I'm not suggesting they are the only culprits, but they clearly are a significant contributory factor. Many of your points above are valid, but none of them justify breaking the rules (for example the fact that you have committed to renting acommodation for 30 odd weeks, but you now find that you don't need it).
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 11, 2021 14:10:15 GMT
Latest chapter in the long running saga of 'you couldn't make it up' - 13 members of the Celtic squad are currently isolating after coming into close contact with a squad member who tested positive after returning from the teams holiday essential performance training session in Dubai.
The player who tested positive on return from Dubai was Christopher Jullien, who is facing three or four months out with a knee injury after a nasty collision with the goalframe in a win over Dundee United on 30 December.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 11, 2021 15:09:42 GMT
We currently have 3 vaccines approved for use. Does anyone know which is expected to be the next cab off the rank?
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Jan 11, 2021 15:14:37 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 11, 2021 15:25:34 GMT
We currently have 3 vaccines approved for use. Does anyone know which is expected to be the next cab off the rank? But are the cabs big enough for all? i.e. is there a shortage of vaccine? Where does AZN make it? They have a large facility in India but thats just been shut off to Indian residents only. Is their facility in the UK big enough? Others?
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Post by dan1 on Jan 11, 2021 16:44:46 GMT
This made me lol (not THAT lol David C )... The use of the word "Alas" Just to be clear, I don't care if he was on a bike ride a few miles from his home, he's the PM for *******. He should rightly come in for a lot of criticism but not for this.
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