Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 27, 2021 20:47:33 GMT
Lets be positive for a moment. As I understand it there is just slightly more chance of this being less pathogenic than Delta. So is one possible scenario that its actually about on par with the common cold symptoms-wise but its so transmissible it takes over the world thus requiring no more vaccines, no more lockdowns etc ? That's what is assumed happened to Spanish Flu. Left to it's own devices a virus will evolve to become more infectious and less dangerous. Once you start corralling it with vaccines and lockdowns you force it down evolutionary paths which it would not otherwise find. Of course millions died before natural immunity kicked in. And we still have many people dying of flu even now every year.
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Nov 27, 2021 21:28:43 GMT
That's what is assumed happened to Spanish Flu. Left to it's own devices a virus will evolve to become more infectious and less dangerous. Once you start corralling it with vaccines and lockdowns you force it down evolutionary paths which it would not otherwise find. Of course millions died before natural immunity kicked in. And we still have many people dying of flu even now every year. That's true. There are no good decisions, only a choice of alternative bad decisions. Even if the government thought that waiting for natural immunity was the best option in the long run they could not survive adopting such a policy in the short term.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Nov 27, 2021 22:20:24 GMT
Regarding the final point, I saw an article stating that over the last 20 or so years, political preferences have changed. In the past, parties of the left appealled to the less well off and less educated. Now they appeal to a coalition of less well off and more educated. While the right has lost support from the more- and gained from the less- educated. I bet it would be easy to find the article but I've no time to do so at present. off course that may be related to more people attending university, Where they get influenced by Left Wing liberal lecturers. If they come from the Welsh Valleys or elsewhere in similarly ex industrial areas they have been so indoctrinated since birth to vote Labour, that they wouldn't think to vote any other way.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 27, 2021 22:31:57 GMT
Well as of today, I've decided to join the group of waverers. I will not be voting Tory at the next election if Johnson is their leader.
I gave him huge credit for "getting the [brexit] job done" but there has been so much evidence of incompetence since then that the scales have tipped.
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 27, 2021 22:41:08 GMT
Lets be positive for a moment. As I understand it there is just slightly more chance of this being less pathogenic than Delta. So is one possible scenario that its actually about on par with the common cold symptoms-wise but its so transmissible it takes over the world thus requiring no more vaccines, no more lockdowns etc ? That's what is assumed happened to Spanish Flu. Left to it's own devices a virus will evolve to become more infectious and less dangerous. Once you start corralling it with vaccines and lockdowns you force it down evolutionary paths which it would not otherwise find.Sorry but that is just simply incorrect. There is no other way of saying it other than to say it is total nonsense. The only slight grain of truth sitting in that statement is that randomly evolved mutations that would otherwise have faded away because they were out competed by other strains, can survive because those that would otherwise have been more more successful are blocked from being successful due to vaccines. But you have put the cart before the horse: vaccines don't 'force' diseases down paths it wouldn't have otherwise found, since those mutations are fundamentally random. Instead, they block the forms that they are effective against; and if other strains emerge - randomly - which evade the vaccines, then they will tend to become the more prevalent form. But most importantlY: the less 'corralled' it is, the greater the pool of infection, and therefore the greater the set of mutations that will emerge.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 27, 2021 22:45:03 GMT
Of course millions died before natural immunity kicked in. And we still have many people dying of flu even now every year. That's true. There are no good decisions, only a choice of alternative bad decisions. Even if the government thought that waiting for natural immunity was the best option in the long run they could not survive adopting such a policy in the short term. I'm not entirely sure I agree with that. Whilst you might be right that there are no "good" decisions, there are certainly decisions with a range of outcomes that range from great (or, in the circumstances, "not too bad"?) to terrible. How the costs and benefits are weighed up, and how that process, and its results, are communicated, is, of course, crucial. Just as it's crucial that the government keep the public on-side. I suspect that the answer lies somewhere between, on the one hand, Austria and its compulsory vaccinations, and on the other, Switzerland voting on ending any and all restrictions. Will Peppa Pig Johnson be able to lead the country through this? It actually demands that he put the interests of the country before his own. Evidence to suggest that he'll do so is... limited. If the only way of getting the message across is via enough people ending up in hospital / dying we're in for a very rough... decade? And one very real problem, evidenced by the "fuel crisis", is that the public simply doesn't believe what the government says.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 27, 2021 22:47:02 GMT
Well as of today, I've decided to join the group of waverers. I will not be voting Tory at the next election if Johnson is their leader. I gave him huge credit for "getting the [brexit] job done" but there has been so much evidence of incompetence since then that the scales have tipped. Huge props for the first part of that post. In fact I'm so full of joy as a result of it that I'll overlook the second part .
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 27, 2021 22:50:01 GMT
Well as of today, I've decided to join the group of waverers. I will not be voting Tory at the next election if Johnson is their leader. I gave him huge credit for "getting the [brexit] job done" but there has been so much evidence of incompetence since then that the scales have tipped. from posts of a few months ago, I thought you had reached that point a while back. Welcome to the pack, even if it is only one of two. the combination of a) self serving interest (personal) b) total incompetence c) self serving interest for favoured acolytes and hangers on d) borderline corruption - was known from combination of past evidence and general character for the last x years. I made the decision to not vote conservative again - at least for the foreseeable - back in the leadership election, IF the Tory party blue rinse membership saw fit to make him party leader. They did, and I won't.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 28, 2021 8:14:50 GMT
Checked in one of the NHS Vaccination centre this morning for booster jab. Freebies are available in the waiting area.
According to this vaccination centre info, earliest day can be taken for booster jab is 147th day after 2nd dose.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 28, 2021 8:29:05 GMT
As a general point is it true that the further Left you are on the traditional political scale the less faith you have in the education level and intelligence of your fellow man/women/either/both? I may well be wrong and the bias may well appear on the Right, but its the Left that I know more about as I know more of them.... I can't help wondering if you've nailed the problem there, but don't realise it... If they come from the Welsh Valleys or elsewhere in similarly ex industrial areas they have been so indoctrinated since birth to vote Labour, that they wouldn't think to vote any other way. Where have you been since the 2019 election?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 28, 2021 8:31:03 GMT
I gave him huge credit for "getting the [brexit] job done" Oh, that he certainly did... Even if he seems to be trying to deny the way in which he did it now. Actually, he seems to be trying to deny that he even had anything to do with that bit... But that's for another thread... SINCE?
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 28, 2021 10:17:00 GMT
Checked in one of the NHS Vaccination centre this morning for booster jab. Freebies are available in the waiting area. According to this vaccination centre info, earliest day can be taken for booster jab is 147th day after 2nd dose. Freebies ? What kind of freebies ? We have a right to know.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 28, 2021 10:44:19 GMT
Checked in one of the NHS Vaccination centre this morning for booster jab. Freebies are available in the waiting area. According to this vaccination centre info, earliest day can be taken for booster jab is 147th day after 2nd dose. Freebies ? What kind of freebies ? We have a right to know. I got a free mask and bottle of water, but apparently the Ipad like tablets are not fair game.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Nov 28, 2021 11:17:55 GMT
In addition of free bottle water, there are free memorabilia for collectors.
“I’ve boosted my immunity” badges, flu vaccine or COVID-19 booster edition, as well as “Flu + covid-19 booster” stickers.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 28, 2021 13:42:09 GMT
Dr Angelique Coetzee, the South African doctor who first spotted the new Covid variant Omicron, says the patients seen so far have had "extremely mild symptoms" - but more time is needed before we know the seriousness of the disease for vulnerable people.
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