michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 11, 2021 18:43:00 GMT
Two AZs topped up with a Pfiz this morning, perfect timing! Good for another three months then presumably.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 11, 2021 19:38:25 GMT
If the AZ vaccine proves to be as compromised by the Omicron variant as the recent report suggests, I wonder where this leaves AZ in general and all of the poorer countries (for example India) who are reliant on it?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 11, 2021 21:12:45 GMT
If the AZ vaccine proves to be as compromised by the Omicron variant as the recent report suggests, I wonder where this leaves AZ in general and all of the poorer countries (for example India) who are reliant on it? Slightly better off than without any vacc at all...
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 11, 2021 21:14:10 GMT
If the AZ vaccine proves to be as compromised by the Omicron variant as the recent report suggests, I wonder where this leaves AZ in general and all of the poorer countries (for example India) who are reliant on it? up the creek without a paddle I suspect. But given the Omicron starting point, it may not be long before the other vacs are in the same place. I suspect we are now in a position of needing new variant vaccines fairly pronto.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 11, 2021 22:03:10 GMT
If the AZ vaccine proves to be as compromised by the Omicron variant as the recent report suggests, I wonder where this leaves AZ in general and all of the poorer countries (for example India) who are reliant on it? Slightly better off than without any vacc at all... Possibly. I think I read the efficacy against o is about 5%. 2 years ago or thereabouts I seem to recall reading that (the CDC ?) said an efficacy of 50% is realistically needed to combat the virus. 5% seems way below that and would seem particularly problematic given its rareish serious and fatal side affects. This leads me on to starting to get annoyed at the vaccine debate. I've said many times I've had 2 azn vaccines and am due my 3rd shot of Pfizer soon. However, I'm becoming more and more alienated from the "vaccine is good, anti-vaxxers are bad" debate. In hindsight there were and are clear risks from taking any of the vaccines. The scientists media should have have been 100% honest about what they know and not try to influence (vaccine update) in any way. Another example was the way all three uk authorised vaccines were treated. "THE vaccine" was a phrase frequently used despite the fact that there were three with one being very different to the other two. It was done to influence people not worry about which vaccine they received. Pages ago on this thread I moaned about my AZN vaccine and most would accept now that it frankly is inferior.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 12, 2021 8:15:40 GMT
Is this the same AZ that the non peer reviewed report says 'The early observations for two doses of AstraZeneca are particularly likely to be unreliable'? PS: got my booster tomorrow. Early data suggests fully vaccinated with 2 doses of pfizer is still very effective against Omicron for the 1st 9 weeks after 2nd dose. The booster will give us another 3 months of protection I hope.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 12, 2021 8:37:33 GMT
Slightly better off than without any vacc at all... Possibly. I think I read the efficacy against o is about 5%. 2 years ago or thereabouts I seem to recall reading that (the CDC ?) said an efficacy of 50% is realistically needed to combat the virus. 5% seems way below that and would seem particularly problematic given its rareish serious and fatal side affects. The risk is infinitessimal compared to the benefits. Yet all somebody who's double-AZ-jabbed needs is a single booster of Pf or Mod to be right up there in a couple of weeks - not two shots afresh over a month or three, as they would if they'd had nothing. It might not be perfect, but it's WAAAAAAAAAY better than nothing. There has never been a public health initiative even remotely like this. 8.5bn doses have been administered globally to date, 56% of the global population have had at least one. From zero a year ago. ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinationsThe vaccs themselves are at the cutting edge of science - yet they're built on tried-and-tested platforms. They've been rolled out in astonishingly short order. How many people have died of the vacc? Some, yes. Nobody's saying otherwise. But a vanishingly tiny number compared to the deaths that have been prevented. Up to August, there were believed to be nine deaths in the UK directly related to the vaccine, with five of those having the vacc as the direct underlying cause. blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died-as-a-result-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/And that's compared to 130k deaths to the same point in time. And then there's the lasting effects of long-'vid. I know a few people who've had adverse reactions to their first dose, up to a few days in hospital. They've then been prevented from taking additional doses. Doesn't that make it more important for everybody around them to be vaccinated?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 12, 2021 9:10:01 GMT
michaelc "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" - Voltaire. Personally speaking, now coming out of this, I am very, very glad I had AZ.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 12, 2021 9:33:21 GMT
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 12, 2021 10:06:04 GMT
A different perspective: a vaccine which gets through regulatory approval somewhat ahead of others which has a very high effectiveness against HOSPITLISATION, and is available in significant quantities more quickly, is considerably better than one that is still in the pipeline and a few months behind. Especially so if while that turns out to perhaps have a better effectiveness against preventing infection, they are nigh on comparable in their ability to prevent severe disease (hosptilisation). But regardless, looking at the O situation a bit differently, I think the data linked to by benaj earlier in the thread in this post is of particular interest: p2pindependentforum.com/post/441709If I interpreted that correctly, then what it shows is that at the moment it is thought that a single dose of Az followed by a single Pfizer is measurably better against Omicron than two doses of Pfizer. Note of course that this is probably relevant to infection (laboratory based testing of neutralisation), and the data for severe disease/hospitlisation may turn out to not be a lot different. What that could well mean is that the UK, with a considerable %age of its most vulnerable double jabbed with Az, could be in a pretty good place to maximise the benefits of a booster (which are all being done with Pfizer or Moderna). The fact that 'mix and match' may be a good strategy shouldn't be a huge surprise. The immune system has more than one trick to play, and the different vaccines not surprisingly have subtly different effects on those two elements (antibodies and T cells): that was known pretty early on when the initial vaccine results were released. I may have course have misinterpreted that data. P.S. I believe the data that has been shown above is for antibodies effectiveness. As I recall though, Az has a better impact w.r.t. T-Cell production than the mRNA vaccines. If so, then it could well be that the ability of Az alone to fight off serious disease is significantly under estimated by these figures. Maybe. On the T-Cell issue, this article may be of interest to some: T-cell ‘training grounds’ behind robust immune system response seen in adenovirus vaccines |
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 12, 2021 10:38:45 GMT
The first people in the UK have been hospitalised with Omicron infections. Shame the article doesn't say if they were vaccinated or not
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 12, 2021 10:46:11 GMT
The first people in the UK have been hospitalised with Omicron infections. Shame the article doesn't say if they were vaccinated or not
Perhaps the most concerning/surprising bit in there is that "The new variant of coronavirus now accounts for a third of cases in London, the education secretary said." how long ago since we heard about it ? 2 weeks ? 3 weeks ?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 12, 2021 10:46:32 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 12, 2021 10:50:18 GMT
The first people in the UK have been hospitalised with Omicron infections. Shame the article doesn't say if they were vaccinated or not
Perhaps the most concerning/surprising bit in there is that "The new variant of coronavirus now accounts for a third of cases in London, the education secretary said." how long ago since we heard about it ? 2 weeks ? 3 weeks ? The first confirmed UK cases were 27th Nov, basically a fortnight ago. www.gov.uk/government/news/first-uk-cases-of-omicron-variant-identified
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 12, 2021 11:18:32 GMT
This isn't the case. It was discussed on Sky news yesterday that over 5's are next on the list.
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