Mike
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Post by Mike on Jan 2, 2022 15:54:42 GMT
For many parents the risk of the vaccine isn't important - the main point is that the risk of Corona is so small for these healthy youngsters.
I can understand that. I can't think of any other conditions so unlikely to have serious complications that warrant intervention in such a large group of kids.
If we extended vaccination and other pre-emptive treatment for everything else with similarly small risks, we'd end up doing nothing else! Like many other parents, I see the decisions to vaccinate children as being politically driven rather than motivated by health concerns.
PS my child (soon to be -ren) is far too young to be eligible so I don't have a choice anyway.
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 2, 2022 16:01:23 GMT
This article makes some quite interesting points. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/02/understanding-not-judgement-unjabbed-uk-vaccination-gapA lot of it seems to come down to simple mistrust of the government. And this is not just about the p!ss-poor self-serving behaviour of Johnson and his coterie of clowns. Although having a clown in charge surely doesn't help. Some people are genuinely scared of interaction with government departments. Think Windrush scandals, hostile environment policies, mistrust of the police, aggressive DWP policies etc. Hence, it can be a perfectly logical response to avoid interacting with the state as much as possible. Or in worrying that they are 'out to get you'. And this naturally feeds into conspiracy-like thinking. If you really believe that the government are 'out to get you', why should vaccines be any different? Mistrust of government may explain to some extent, but the level of social conscience and responsibility towards those you mix with also has a bearing. That 28% figure is shocking. Their struggle to understand what turns people against them won't be helped by this attitude.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 2, 2022 16:17:30 GMT
"...the proportion of eligible Mancunian adults who have not received even a single vaccine dose currently standing at about 30%. In more affluent areas of the city, less than 20% of eligible people have not been jabbed, but in some poorer neighbourhoods, the figures tend to hover at about 50%. In aggregate, white people who identify as English, Scottish, Welsh or British register vaccine uptake levels of more than 80%, whereas the current number for people from a Caribbean background is 52%; among those classified as Gypsy or Traveller, the figure is 28%."Mistrust of government may explain to some extent, but the level of social conscience and responsibility towards those you mix with also has a bearing. That 28% figure is shocking. Their struggle to understand what turns people against them won't be helped by this attitude. I was going to visit Barbados in November, where the vaccination rate was <50%. When I looked at some of the travel forums they were full of local people saying they wouldn't get vaccinated because they didn't trust the government. It's the same in Russia, people won't get vaccinated because they don't trust the government. So it's not a UK problem, it exists all over the world.
So if people don't trust Boris then listen to what Public Health England officials are saying. If you don't believe them look at what CDC, WHO, EMA or any other national health organisation are saying. They all say get vaccinated.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 2, 2022 16:21:01 GMT
odd that link is not working for me. Whether I click on it or cut and paste into browser. It resolves to static.guim.co.uk/images/favicon-32x32.icoBut obviously a simple google of the last bit of the url brings up the article.
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 2, 2022 16:29:17 GMT
"...the proportion of eligible Mancunian adults who have not received even a single vaccine dose currently standing at about 30%. In more affluent areas of the city, less than 20% of eligible people have not been jabbed, but in some poorer neighbourhoods, the figures tend to hover at about 50%. In aggregate, white people who identify as English, Scottish, Welsh or British register vaccine uptake levels of more than 80%, whereas the current number for people from a Caribbean background is 52%; among those classified as Gypsy or Traveller, the figure is 28%."Mistrust of government may explain to some extent, but the level of social conscience and responsibility towards those you mix with also has a bearing. That 28% figure is shocking. Their struggle to understand what turns people against them won't be helped by this attitude. I was going to visit Barbados in November, where the vaccination rate was <50%. When I looked at some of the travel forums they were full of local people saying they wouldn't get vaccinated because they didn't trust the government. It's the same in Russia, people won't get vaccinated because they don't trust the government. So it's not a UK problem, it exists all over the world.
So if people don't trust Boris then listen to what Public Health England officials are saying. If you don't believe them look at what CDC, WHO, EMA or any other national health organisation are saying. They all say get vaccinated.
Yes, it looks like the vaccination division is not so much along political lines as socio-ethnic grouping lines.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 2, 2022 17:03:05 GMT
"...the proportion of eligible Mancunian adults who have not received even a single vaccine dose currently standing at about 30%. In more affluent areas of the city, less than 20% of eligible people have not been jabbed, but in some poorer neighbourhoods, the figures tend to hover at about 50%. In aggregate, white people who identify as English, Scottish, Welsh or British register vaccine uptake levels of more than 80%, whereas the current number for people from a Caribbean background is 52%; among those classified as Gypsy or Traveller, the figure is 28%."Mistrust of government may explain to some extent, but the level of social conscience and responsibility towards those you mix with also has a bearing. That 28% figure is shocking. Their struggle to understand what turns people against them won't be helped by this attitude. I was going to visit Barbados in November, where the vaccination rate was <50%. When I looked at some of the travel forums they were full of local people saying they wouldn't get vaccinated because they didn't trust the government. It's the same in Russia, people won't get vaccinated because they don't trust the government. So it's not a UK problem, it exists all over the world.
So if people don't trust Boris then listen to what Public Health England officials are saying. If you don't believe them look at what CDC, WHO, EMA or any other national health organisation are saying. They all say get vaccinated.
I think even more importantly and perhaps more realistically, is localised efforts from locally recognised and respected groups and individuals working with specific targeted communities. The problem with the 'look at the CDC, WHO, EMA etc. is that for many refuseniks they aren't able / don't distinquish between these bodies and 'govt'. They are just another branch of the untrusted 'authorities' (niceties such as independence from etc. just on their radar). Of course nationally recognised role models associated with the communities with poor uptake could also help. Some of course are, but others are not. Without wanting to pick on any individual, could Tyson Fury for example be active in promoting uptake within the gypsy/traveller community (bearing in mind the figures given) ? Some communities have limited touchpoints with services, esp. health services and that also presents challenges. Way back when we were still in the first wave of vaccinations, I saw an excellent example of outreach, in this case to the boating community. No I don't mean people berthing in their yachts in Cowes, but those living on barges etc. on the K&A canal. They are an example of a group that would I'm sure have otherwise have seen low vaccination rates. But a charity provided a boat for vaccination team to take the vaccinations to the community, not rely on them coming forward. Signs put up along the canal to advertise the dates/times/locations, no appointments needed, just turn up. The times I saw them they were very busy with queues along the banks. They were of course pretty savvy and had their mooring places immediate to a local hostelry, which would have helped no end.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 2, 2022 17:21:51 GMT
Clicky no worky for me, so... www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/02/britain-got-it-wrong-on-covid-long-lockdown-did-more-harm-than-good-says-scientistIt is, as ever, very easy to see these things in hindsight. There is no way that, 24 months ago, we knew we'd be HERE now... No country got it right. Some got it more right than others, but the simple interconnectedness of the world means that it would have needed EVERYBODY to get it right to do anything but minimise and dissipate the impact. Apart from that, it was a simple choice - prioritise body count or economy. Some countries achieved the unenviable result of being badly hit in both regards...
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 2, 2022 17:22:48 GMT
What are they all denying ? That covid exists or that vaccines work or what? Both, to greater or lesser extents. Some are also making the ridiculous claim that the vacc is as harmful, or worse, than the virus.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 2, 2022 17:33:03 GMT
What are they all denying ? That covid exists or that vaccines work or what? Both, to greater or lesser extents. Some are also making the ridiculous claim that the vacc is as harmful, or worse, than the virus. Perhaps ridiculous to say it is harmful to all but it certainly is to some such a this guy.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 2, 2022 17:40:57 GMT
May I refer you back to the statistics you suggested I wouldn't provide, and the context I gave for them?
I repeat - you are 4x as likely to be murdered, and 6x as likely to be killed on the roads, in the Ukraine as you are to have the slightest symptoms of myocarditis from any of the Cov jabs.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 2, 2022 17:41:25 GMT
A rare occasion I agree with most of what is written there. Interesting that this is a disease that puts over 75s at risk 10,000 times more than under 14s. That is a staggering difference in risk and yet it is younger people and now children that some expect to help them. I agree with the person who said it is that reduced risk that we should all weigh up very carefully before giving the vaccine to our children. That is a better argument than the one I originally used which concentrated on the vaccine risks which are small even though they do exist.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 2, 2022 17:46:20 GMT
Interesting that this is a disease that puts over 75s at risk 10,000 times more than under 14s. That is a staggering difference in risk and yet it is younger people and now children that some expect to help them. Children are currently the primary vector for infection.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 2, 2022 17:49:05 GMT
May I refer you back to the statistics you suggested I wouldn't provide, and the context I gave for them? I repeat - you are 4x as likely to be murdered, and 6x as likely to be killed on the roads, in the Ukraine as you are to have the slightest symptoms of myocarditis from any of the Cov jabs. If we use your figures which I think were 1 in 60,000 (so probably a lot higher risk when you consider all the other risks but lets assume now its as low as 1 in 50,000 ) then for every million children we give the vaccine to you are going to seriously harm 20 otherwise fit and healthy children largely to protect those who have a 10,000 fold increase in Covid-19 risk. Even the WHO says in its Conclusions about vaccinating children: " As children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, unless they are in a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers." So its not clear cut at all as you seem to think it is.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 2, 2022 17:51:56 GMT
Interesting that this is a disease that puts over 75s at risk 10,000 times more than under 14s. That is a staggering difference in risk and yet it is younger people and now children that some expect to help them. Children are currently the primary vector for infection. I'm guessing you don't have kids as you probably wouldn't describe them in those terms.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 2, 2022 17:57:12 GMT
May I refer you back to the statistics you suggested I wouldn't provide, and the context I gave for them? I repeat - you are 4x as likely to be murdered, and 6x as likely to be killed on the roads, in the Ukraine as you are to have the slightest symptoms of myocarditis from any of the Cov jabs. If we use your figures... Not MY figures. The official statistics. Children are currently the primary vector for infection. I'm guessing you don't have kids as you probably wouldn't describe them in those terms. It's a simple statement of undeniable scientific fact. I think bracknellboy's quote from a few pages back is particularly apposite here.
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