benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 26, 2022 19:06:41 GMT
So had my booster today - Pfizer. What side effects if any did you guys have and what can I look forward to. A headache and mild fever for the first night and that's it? Nothing? Next question, I assume it doesn't protect me much against contracting omicron because the anti-bodies produced are not very effective against the virus, but I assume it helps considerably if and when my cells become infected as the T and other cells slay the infected ones. i.e. I assume it protects well against serious illness? I am boosted with Pfizer, nothing much to report apart from sore arm for a few hours. I suppose it is fate to get myself infected with one of the covid variants one day. Omicron is a good candidate, 42% of people infected with Omicron do not have symptoms regardless of vaccination status. Some unvaccinated elderly do not have symptoms at all.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 26, 2022 22:31:14 GMT
So had my booster today - Pfizer. What side effects if any did you guys have and what can I look forward to. A headache and mild fever for the first night and that's it? Nothing? Next question, I assume it doesn't protect me much against contracting omicron because the anti-bodies produced are not very effective against the virus, but I assume it helps considerably if and when my cells become infected as the T and other cells slay the infected ones. i.e. I assume it protects well against serious illness? I am boosted with Pfizer, nothing much to report apart from sore arm for a few hours. I suppose it is fate to get myself infected with one of the covid variants one day. Omicron is a good candidate, 42% of people infected with Omicron do not have symptoms regardless of vaccination status. Some unvaccinated elderly do not have symptoms at all. Interesting piece on R4's More or Less today, debunking the figure being waved around by certain right-wing news outlets that only ~17k people have died OF Covid in the UK, rather than WITH Covid. The number is correct... ish... It's actually the number of death certificates that have ONLY said "Covid" on them, nothing else. But, of course, that's an utterly irrelevant figure... www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0013r9w
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 27, 2022 15:18:48 GMT
I am boosted with Pfizer, nothing much to report apart from sore arm for a few hours. I suppose it is fate to get myself infected with one of the covid variants one day. Omicron is a good candidate, 42% of people infected with Omicron do not have symptoms regardless of vaccination status. Some unvaccinated elderly do not have symptoms at all. Interesting piece on R4's More or Less today, debunking the figure being waved around by certain right-wing news outlets that only ~17k people have died OF Covid in the UK, rather than WITH Covid. The number is correct... ish... It's actually the number of death certificates that have ONLY said "Covid" on them, nothing else. But, of course, that's an utterly irrelevant figure... www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0013r9wWhy do you believe this is a left/right issue ?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 27, 2022 16:08:07 GMT
Interesting piece on R4's More or Less today, debunking the figure being waved around by certain right-wing news outlets that only ~17k people have died OF Covid in the UK, rather than WITH Covid. The number is correct... ish... It's actually the number of death certificates that have ONLY said "Covid" on them, nothing else. But, of course, that's an utterly irrelevant figure... www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0013r9wWhy do you believe this is a left/right issue ? Well, if you listen to the program, you'd have heard GB News namechecked as the source of the figure. But, as far as the UK goes, Covid minimalisation/denial certainly seems to have a very strong overlap with the further right end of the political spectrum - within parliament, within the media, and within the public. GB News and David Davis MP have also been factchecked on this false claim elsewhere... fullfact.org/health/dan-wootton-covid-only-deaths/
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 27, 2022 16:37:40 GMT
Why do you believe this is a left/right issue ? Well, if you listen to the program, you'd have heard GB News namechecked as the source of the figure. But, as far as the UK goes, Covid minimalisation/denial certainly seems to have a very strong overlap with the further right end of the political spectrum - within parliament, within the media, and within the public.Umm. While I think there is a quite a bit of truth about that, I think it is more complex and nuanced. It is certainly true that in many of the developed democratic countries, those most balking against Covid restrictions tend to sit on the libertarian side of the fence, which in turn is often associated with and aligned more to the right. In the US, see those who push against vaccine/mask mandates, who are far more likely to be aligned not just with the republicans but the Trump wing of the party. Something similar can be seen here, with the CRG group. In turn, this (not surprisingly) is also reflected in media outlets (Fox News for example), and I'm sure GB News which is in effect the tiny pimple on the arse of the elephant which is Fox News. And as a means to an end, those who push the libertarian/individual freedom over population health/well being, do also tend to push the line that minimises health impacts of Covid. But on the other side of the fence, you do also have the semi-anarchists who are also conspiracy anti covid anti vax nutters. Piers Corbyn one particular post boy for that, if I can call him that. A lot of the tosh though does seemed to be pushed (and I'm not doubt being fed to by 'malign forces') to alt-right type sites, esp. US centric ones, it seems to me.
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corto
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Post by corto on Jan 27, 2022 17:00:13 GMT
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 27, 2022 17:08:21 GMT
To see the effects of Covid you only have to look at the excess mortality statistics, if Covid (related) deaths were so low it wouldn't have made a dink in those figures. Edit: running at 2000/million cumulative.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 27, 2022 18:16:54 GMT
To see the effects of Covid you only have to look at the excess mortality statistics, if Covid (related) deaths were so low it wouldn't have made a dink in those figures. Edit: running at 2000/million cumulative. During the last 30 years, only once has there been more than 600k UK deaths in a year. Not suprisingly, it was 2020 (when covid arrived) when the rate was about 90k higher than the average for the preceeding 10 years.
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 28, 2022 0:51:49 GMT
To see the effects of Covid you only have to look at the excess mortality statistics, if Covid (related) deaths were so low it wouldn't have made a dink in those figures. Edit: running at 2000/million cumulative. During the last 30 years, only once has there been more than 600k UK deaths in a year. Not suprisingly, it was 2020 (when covid arrived) when the rate was about 90k higher than the average for the preceeding 10 years.
There was a blip in mortality due to Covid, but not as much as you might imagine, given all the upheaval. Taking account of the increasing year-on-year population, it's more meaningful to look at the crude mortality rate (deaths per 100,000 of your population in any year). These tables show the minor blip in 2020, but it's nowhere near as pronounced as the blip in 1918 for Spanish Flu, for example. If you look at it in the cold light of day, you start to wonder what all the fuss has been about. Clicky here and look at the second chart: www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc1446a/fig2/wrapper/index.html
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 28, 2022 0:56:27 GMT
One thing that interests me is we bumbled along at a steady rate from 1950 to 1980, then went through a rather good period 1980 to 2010 or so, when the curve flattened off again. What happened to improve matters from 1980 for the next 30 years?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 28, 2022 7:01:47 GMT
During the last 30 years, only once has there been more than 600k UK deaths in a year. Not suprisingly, it was 2020 (when covid arrived) when the rate was about 90k higher than the average for the preceeding 10 years.
There was a blip in mortality due to Covid, but not as much as you might imagine, given all the upheaval. Taking account of the increasing year-on-year population, it's more meaningful to look at the crude mortality rate (deaths per 100,000 of your population in any year). These tables show the minor blip in 2020, but it's nowhere near as pronounced as the blip in 1918 for Spanish Flu, for example. If you look at it in the cold light of day, you start to wonder what all the fuss has been about. Clicky here and look at the second chart: www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc1446a/fig2/wrapper/index.htmlThose graphs end at the end of 2020, a lot more to come in 2021, see graph below. The 1918 flu was a global disaster, with more deaths in Europe from the flu than in the WW1, which was itself a blood bath. And 2000 per million excess deaths in the UK due to Covid is no slouche. ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-06-10..2022-01-17&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Excess+mortality+%28count%29&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false&country=USA~GBR~DEU~ITA~IND~FRA~AUT~AUS~CAN
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 28, 2022 8:12:29 GMT
 Given that we can be utterly certain that mortality is inevitable, with a 100% fatality rate in the long term, 2k deaths per 100k per year means an average life expectancy of 50yrs, while 1k deaths per 100k per year means an average life expectancy of 100 years. Doesn't it...? The 20thC-H2 average of about 1,200-1,100/100k would be late 80s. Which is about right. So if that did reach a low point of about 900/100k, doesn't that indicate expected annual life expectancy of over 110 years?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 28, 2022 8:25:23 GMT
To see the effects of Covid you only have to look at the excess mortality statistics, if Covid (related) deaths were so low it wouldn't have made a dink in those figures. Edit: running at 2000/million cumulative. and while I haven't seen specific figures to confirm it, I think that even 'Excess Deaths' underestimate the impact. Very significant measures were taken which affected behaviours and transmission of other diseases. I mean for gawds sake, I've not had a cold since this thing started. The number of cases of influenza have been significantly reduced due to the various measures in place. The number of deaths from flu will have been reduced as a consequence. Now to be sure, some of those that have died have covid might have been prime cases for dying from flu if only it had been ripping through but it certainly wouldn't have been 1 to 1. I'd also be interested in seeing road death figures during the first lockdown (not withstanding that driving behaviours in the first weeks/months after 1st lockdown were awful which may have boosted numbers).
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 28, 2022 8:38:31 GMT
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 28, 2022 9:34:07 GMT
During the last 30 years, only once has there been more than 600k UK deaths in a year. Not suprisingly, it was 2020 (when covid arrived) when the rate was about 90k higher than the average for the preceeding 10 years.
There was a blip in mortality due to Covid, but not as much as you might imagine, given all the upheaval. Taking account of the increasing year-on-year population, it's more meaningful to look at the crude mortality rate (deaths per 100,000 of your population in any year). These tables show the minor blip in 2020, but it's nowhere near as pronounced as the blip in 1918 for Spanish Flu, for example. If you look at it in the cold light of day, you start to wonder what all the fuss has been about. Clicky here and look at the second chart: www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc1446a/fig2/wrapper/index.htmlI'm not certain that 90k extra deaths in 2020 could reasonably be called a 'blip'. Also, lets not forget that the 2020 and 2021 death totals would have been far higher without lockdowns and vaccinations (which I don't think they had in 1918).
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