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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 28, 2022 12:05:48 GMT
There was a blip in mortality due to Covid, but not as much as you might imagine, given all the upheaval. Taking account of the increasing year-on-year population, it's more meaningful to look at the crude mortality rate (deaths per 100,000 of your population in any year). These tables show the minor blip in 2020, but it's nowhere near as pronounced as the blip in 1918 for Spanish Flu, for example. If you look at it in the cold light of day, you start to wonder what all the fuss has been about. Clicky here and look at the second chart: www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc1446a/fig2/wrapper/index.htmlI'm not certain that 90k extra deaths in 2020 could reasonably be called a 'blip'. Also, lets not forget that the 2020 and 2021 death totals would have been far higher without lockdowns and vaccinations (which I don't think they had in 1918). The figures show that we've only returned to the mortality rate we had in 2003, so it's not an outright calamity. And it's still a healthier figure than any year in our history prior to 2003.
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 28, 2022 12:13:42 GMT
 Given that we can be utterly certain that mortality is inevitable, with a 100% fatality rate in the long term, 2k deaths per 100k per year means an average life expectancy of 50yrs, while 1k deaths per 100k per year means an average life expectancy of 100 years. Doesn't it...? The 20thC-H2 average of about 1,200-1,100/100k would be late 80s. Which is about right. So if that did reach a low point of about 900/100k, doesn't that indicate expected annual life expectancy of over 110 years? There's probably a factor like improved neonatal care, or something, at play. You'd probably be better doing those calculations using the age-standardised mortality rate here, rather than the crude mortality rate in that graph above. I think that will return more plausible life expectancies.
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Jan 29, 2022 13:59:03 GMT
Wanted to vent a little about my recent visit to the main vaccine centre in Bracknell in the Waitrose sports centre. 1/ I drove up and saw a NHS Vaccination Sign outside an entrance/exit. But there was an automatic barrier there. I drove on a little bit more and couldn't see any other way to get into the carpark so I doubled back. Then doubled back again. Eventually I realised the entrance was elsewhere and was via another linked carpark owned by and office. There was no sign outside the entrance ! 2/ I hadn't brought my coat was was not going to be outside for long. I arrived to the door where I was greeted by a tall elderly chap: "Have you an appointment?" "Yes" "Is it a booster" "yes"
"When were you last vaccinated" "erm...I can't remember exactly..."
<getting cold now>
"So you don't know when you were vaccinated. Hmmm...Do you have the NHS app?..." "Yes"
"Do you have the card from your last vaccination?" "No"
Some more toing and froing I can't remember till he eventually let me in. Note I had the print out of my appointment including reference number and I also had my nhs number.
3/ The place was empty as most have had their boosters by now. I was directed to a couple of ladies at a desk. At least she only asked for my NHS reference number which I did of course have. And then she fumbled with the computer for a long time. A very long time. Meanwhile a young couple arrived and went to the lady next door. They arrived after me and their appointment was also scheduled for afterwards (I could hear their conversation). They were able to sit down within a minute whilst I continued to wait.
Eventually she said she was having trouble locating me and could I see her colleague?
No problem and the colleague had no problem locating me either.
However when I sat down, it was of course the young couple who were invited to the nurse first as they sat down first (?). Not only that but the buggers had one vaccination each. I could hear them through the curtain.
Of course everyone above is a volunteer which is why I was super polite the entire time and these are very very minor issues but I posted it partly because I thought bracknellboy volunteered (although I don't know if it was at this centre). Perhaps he was the chap at the door trying to keep me out haha |
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 29, 2022 18:58:21 GMT
Wanted to vent a little about my recent visit to the main vaccine centre in Bracknell in the Waitrose sports centre. 1/ I drove up and saw a NHS Vaccination Sign outside an entrance/exit. But there was an automatic barrier there. I drove on a little bit more and couldn't see any other way to get into the carpark so I doubled back. Then doubled back again. Eventually I realised the entrance was elsewhere and was via another linked carpark owned by and office. There was no sign outside the entrance ! 2/ I hadn't brought my coat was was not going to be outside for long. I arrived to the door where I was greeted by a tall elderly chap: "Have you an appointment?" "Yes" "Is it a booster" "yes"
"When were you last vaccinated" "erm...I can't remember exactly..."
<getting cold now>
"So you don't know when you were vaccinated. Hmmm...Do you have the NHS app?..." "Yes"
"Do you have the card from your last vaccination?" "No"
Some more toing and froing I can't remember till he eventually let me in. Note I had the print out of my appointment including reference number and I also had my nhs number.
3/ The place was empty as most have had their boosters by now. I was directed to a couple of ladies at a desk. At least she only asked for my NHS reference number which I did of course have. And then she fumbled with the computer for a long time. A very long time. Meanwhile a young couple arrived and went to the lady next door. They arrived after me and their appointment was also scheduled for afterwards (I could hear their conversation). They were able to sit down within a minute whilst I continued to wait.
Eventually she said she was having trouble locating me and could I see her colleague?
No problem and the colleague had no problem locating me either.
However when I sat down, it was of course the young couple who were invited to the nurse first as they sat down first (?). Not only that but the buggers had one vaccination each. I could hear them through the curtain.
Of course everyone above is a volunteer which is why I was super polite the entire time and these are very very minor issues but I posted it partly because I thought bracknellboy volunteered (although I don't know if it was at this centre). Perhaps he was the chap at the door trying to keep me out hahaI wasn't on duty today so it wasn't me trying to keep you out. Though if you had messaged me beforehand, I would have picked up a gash shift to make sure I was there :-) You had an appointment, not a walkin. If you had an appointment then that should be entirely sufficient. Did you make that clear to them ? I simply ask "do you have an appointment", and that would be true of most volunteers that I know of. [Note that it didn't used to be like that as so much was done on walkins so the 'date check' stuff is deeply ingrained with some of the vols]. Dates of last vac only an issue with walkins (for obvious reasons). That said, when it comes to dates, most people doing walkins know that it was 'back in Sept/Oct/Nov/june" etc which is normally sufficient, and if not "fine. Was it more than 8/12 weeks ago" is the next obvious question. in my experience. There are a few new vols that have arrived in the last couple of weeks so it could have been someone still finding their feet. But I am surprised that if it was clear to them you had an appointment you weren't just waved through. With regard to check in. These are NHS systems. Do I need to say more  The admins at the front are paid and full time so they do know what they are doing (again, unless perhaps if they are new). Having helped admin on the front desk recently, I'm aware that sometimes they simply don't work flawlessly/easily, or several different mechanisms may have to be used to find someone. Waiting times once seated are generally trivial at the moment, simply because so few people are turning up. Hopefully you didn't have to wait long. I won't feed this back at the moment, as I don't want to tie it to a specific day which would tie it down to a very few specific people. I may pick it up in a few days time.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 29, 2022 19:00:50 GMT
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Jan 29, 2022 20:04:10 GMT
I wasn't on duty today so it wasn't me trying to keep you out. Though if you had messaged me beforehand, I would have picked up a gash shift to make sure I was there :-) <snipped the interest bit> Just FYI it was actually Wednesday 26 mid afternoon. It really wasn't all that bad - definitely won't be lodging any kind of complaint. But thanks anyway for taking it seriously and you're welcome to feed it back.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 29, 2022 20:53:02 GMT
Wanted to vent a little about my recent visit to the main vaccine centre … Well, it’s too early to say whether the rest of those eligible want to get boosted after last year. They could have natural booster O amd can’t have the booster jabs or simply wait to get boosted before next winter. My experience of accompanying someone to visit a local vaccination 2 weeks ago was a bit similar to yours. Quiet, not many people queued, too many questions asked by volunteers. However, the jab was administered by a caring registered nurse, that all matters. 
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jan 29, 2022 21:13:47 GMT
Wanted to vent a little about my recent visit to the main vaccine centre … Well, it’s too early to say whether the rest of those eligible want to get boosted after last year. They could have natural booster O amd can’t have the booster jabs or simply wait to get boosted before next winter. My experience of accompanying someone to visit a local vaccination 2 weeks ago was a bit similar to yours. Quiet, not many people queued, too many questions asked by volunteers. However, the jab was administered by a caring registered nurse, that all matters.  I suppose it is not that surprising given the wide range of 'human nature' that a percentage of volunteers may tend to build up their part a bit over time. Given they are volunteers a fair bit of slack should and could be given. Must admit 'security' was very thin on the ground when I had my booster simply a guy at the desk who seemed more than competent and a short wait to get jabbed. On the down side I think the jabber was quite new to the job, first time I have had anybody take a run up on delivery and I was in no doubt I had had it.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 29, 2022 21:47:17 GMT
Well, it’s too early to say whether the rest of those eligible want to get boosted after last year. They could have natural booster O amd can’t have the booster jabs or simply wait to get boosted before next winter. My experience of accompanying someone to visit a local vaccination 2 weeks ago was a bit similar to yours. Quiet, not many people queued, too many questions asked by volunteers. However, the jab was administered by a caring registered nurse, that all matters. I suppose it is not that surprising given the wide range of 'human nature' that a percentage of volunteers may tend to build up their part a bit over time. Given they are volunteers a fair bit of slack should and could be given. Must admit 'security' was very thin on the ground when I had my booster simply a guy at the desk who seemed more than competent and a short wait to get jabbed. On the down side I think the jabber was quite new to the job, first time I have had anybody take a run up on delivery and I was in no doubt I had had it.Laughing. Even if you weren't at the time ! Hopefully your arm recovered not too quickly.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 29, 2022 22:44:23 GMT
Well, it’s too early to say whether the rest of those eligible want to get boosted after last year. They could have natural booster O amd can’t have the booster jabs or simply wait to get boosted before next winter. My experience of accompanying someone to visit a local vaccination 2 weeks ago was a bit similar to yours. Quiet, not many people queued, too many questions asked by volunteers. However, the jab was administered by a caring registered nurse, that all matters. I suppose it is not that surprising given the wide range of 'human nature' that a percentage of volunteers may tend to build up their part a bit over time. Given they are volunteers a fair bit of slack should and could be given. In my experience, anonymously and not related to anywhere in particular I must say - esp. as I'm sure it happens everywhere - it can also be the professional side that can, how can I say, muddy the waters from time to time. Its all very interesting being briefed as to what the DOB/1st dose/2nd dose dates are for today, to be eligible for 1st/2nd/booster, but if one robustly asks the question "fine, but we are only doing appointments today aren't we ?" and the answer is "Yes, but those are the dates", a fair amount of utterly unnecessary muddiness has been created. I'm kind of a "process guy". I like to challenge and improve. Make things efficient. Sometimes in life though one has to just roll with it. Life is not perfect out there. lots of people of different calibre are trying to do the right thing. Despite the efficiency thing, in the big scheme of things this stuff is relatively unimportant, as much as we should want things to be "better". A young teenager turning up having taken 3 hours for them to pluck up the courage to get out the house with their mother because they are extremely anxious - that is important. Someone is in their 20's - desperate to get vaccinated but is terrified of needles - takes 4 or 5 separate visits with various companions, (parents, friend etc); and several times, at the last moment can't go through with, but eventually manages to after a week - that's important. When adult children are accompanying their aged and partly dementia parents to get jabbed, and need some help - that's important. Dealing with situations on the very rare occasion that someone has been significantly ill while at a vaccination centre - that's important. In my limited experience, what I've seen from both professional staff and volunteers in being empathetic/supportive/considerate in dealing with people has been exemplary. I would say 'inspiring' but that might sound pretentious, so I won't.
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registerme
Member of DD Central
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Post by registerme on Jan 29, 2022 23:13:42 GMT
I suppose it is not that surprising given the wide range of 'human nature' that a percentage of volunteers may tend to build up their part a bit over time. Given they are volunteers a fair bit of slack should and could be given. In my experience, anonymously and not related to anywhere in particular I must say - esp. as I'm sure it happens everywhere - it can be the professional side that can, how can I say, muddy the waters from time to time. Its all very interesting being briefed as to what the DOB/1st dose/2nd dose dates are for today, to be eligible for 1st/2nd/booster, but if one robustly asks the question "fine, but we are only doing appointments today aren't we ?" and the answer is "Yes, but those are the dates", a fair amount of utterly unnecessary muddiness has been created. I'm kind of a "process guy". I like to challenge and improve. Make things efficient. Sometimes in life though one has to just roll with it. Life is not perfect out there. lots of people of different calibre are trying to do the right thing. Despite the efficiency thing, in the big scheme of things this stuff is relatively unimportant, as much as we should want things to be "better". A young teenager turning up having taken 3 hours for them to pluck up the courage to get out the house with their mother because they are extremely anxious - that is important. Someone is in their 20's - desperate to get vaccinated but is terrified of needles - takes 4 or 5 separate visits with various companions, (parents, friend etc); and several times, at the last moment can't go through with, but eventually manages to after a week - that's important. When adult children are accompanying their aged and partly dementia parents to get jabbed, and need some help - that's important. Dealing with situations on the very rare occasion that someone has been significantly ill while at a vaccination centre - that's important. In my limited experience, what I've seen from both professional staff and volunteers in being empathetic/supportive/considerate in dealing with people has been exemplary. I would say 'inspiring' but that might sound pretentious, so I won't. Brilliant post BB.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 30, 2022 7:29:34 GMT
At my daughter's first jab appointment, the guy in front of her in the queue got to the reception desk and in an increasingly jovial and apologetic conversation admitted that he didn't have his letter to prove he was eligible, he didn't have his appointment details, he didn't know his NI number, and hadn't brought any identification, unfortunately he had left everything in his car which he'd lent to his son. My daughter listening to the discussion (and trying not to laugh) was sure he would be turned away but he still got his jab with little delay.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 30, 2022 9:01:06 GMT
On the down side I think the jabber was quite new to the job, first time I have had anybody take a run up on delivery and I was in no doubt I had had it. Incompetent is not necessarily the same as new. I gave blood one time (our sessions are mobile, taking over a school hall in a different town per day), and drew the team leader doing a "keep your hand in" stint. After ten rounds with a hacked-off porcupine, I timed out on filling the bag (normally, I'm fast) - and the next day it became clear why. The blood that should have gone into the bag was under the skin for about a 15cm radius.
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jan 30, 2022 10:36:47 GMT
adrianc, I feel for you I went o a private hospital once to have blood tests done and it took 3 goes ( Using Both arms ) for the vampire to get the needle in correctly and like you the next day the first 2 attempts were clearly messed up. Usually when I go to give blood it is very efficient. Personally I will not go back to where I was sent for my booster, people without appointments seen first !, even the guy who turned up 4 hours late was given priority, there was a queue out of the door and down the street in the cold. At least one person doing vaccinations was not wearing his mask over his nose. I honestly felt it was a chore to them. the whole process was drawn out and very time consuming and inefficient compared to the other centre. The big difference was the other centre had members of the military organising so it was efficient for example the person distributing loaded syringes was in the middle of the room so everyone walked a few seconds to collect it. whereas the slow one she was tucked away at one end of the room so every time the vaccinator had to walk from one end of the room to the other.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2022 14:49:44 GMT
I used to go to manufacturing conferences and people would whine about how slowly the tea was given out.
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The admins at the front are paid and full time so they do know what they are doing (again, unless perhaps if they are new). Having helped admin on the front desk recently, I'm aware that sometimes they simply don't work flawlessly/easily, or several different mechanisms may have to be used to find someone. 
