iRobot
Member of DD Central
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Post by iRobot on Aug 28, 2020 18:26:14 GMT
I understand some people have made money from trading or getting out before the problems come to light but I would like to know how you view you success for lenders who have stuck with you (and are now stuck) pre and post covid.
It's an interesting question but surely only one that can be answered well and truly 'post covid'? Hopefully we'll all still be around in a couple of years time to find out. Or are you expecting an answer before that long? (And, if so, what kind of time-frame did you have in mind and why?) Also - and I have my own thoughts on what I would consider a success - but what would you consider to be a success for those "lenders who have stuck with you (and are now stuck) pre and post covid"?
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Aug 28, 2020 19:28:03 GMT
I said I knew them, I never said I endorsed them ! DYOR as I give no opinion. And we have, from 2013, always be very clear that a sustainable business doesn’t just serve one stakeholder group but instead we, unusually, balance the needs and rewards of all stakeholders in order to create a sustainable business - something the investment world would do well to emulate in my opinionated view. Fairer growth for all. We’d like to be here, serving lenders, borrowers, shareholders and colleagues in 2100. Where was the balance when AC decided to to give flat rate repayments In AAs leaving the larger lenders with a more toxic set of loans which might/will (who knows from the info given out so far) be untradable.
In the interest of balance please can you tell me which of your accounts have been a success for lenders. I have made a list but there may have been more.
MLA GBA1 GBA2 GEA
QAA 30D 90D
I understand some people have made money from trading or getting out before the problems come to light but I would like to know how you view you success for lenders who have stuck with you (and are now stuck) pre and post covid.
Fair question, past performance is a difficult thing to promote in a regulated business and investment firms shy away from it. Let me see what we can do.
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Post by bradley02 on Aug 28, 2020 19:32:09 GMT
Sounds like the High Street Group. Sounds like Stuart knows much better places to invest in than his own company also.😀👍 As I said AC offered a really good alternative to a bank account until it lost the plot & lost sight of its need to serve the needs of its primary stakeholders - its lenders. Seriously Ian, if you honestly believe that HSG or similar property investment bonds is a better place to invest. You really NEED to do some research. Associated words such as misleading, unregulated, investigation and FCA are not hard to find. As a young investor, I paid the price in believing financial snake oil salesman with professional looking websites.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,330 
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 28, 2020 19:38:38 GMT
Sounds like the High Street Group. Sounds like Stuart knows much better places to invest in than his own company also.😀👍 Hmm, not sure I would assume better ... a quick google throws up a page of negative stories and doesnt seem to have filed its accounts which is a familiar red flag. Given that AC have funded projects for HSG subsiduaries, hardly surprising Stuart is familiar. Repaid.
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Post by bradley02 on Aug 28, 2020 19:56:03 GMT
Sounds like Stuart knows much better places to invest in than his own company also.😀👍 As I said AC offered a really good alternative to a bank account until it lost the plot & lost sight of its need to serve the needs of its primary stakeholders - its lenders. I said I knew them, I never said I endorsed them ! DYOR as I give no opinion. And we have, from 2013, always be very clear that a sustainable business doesn’t just serve one stakeholder group but instead we, unusually, balance the needs and rewards of all stakeholders in order to create a sustainable business - something the investment world would do well to emulate in my opinionated view. Fairer growth for all. We’d like to be here, serving lenders, borrowers, shareholders and colleagues in 2100. There is no sensible alternative to this route and approach. The interconnectivity and reliance on each stakeholder is vital for the continued success of all parties. There should be recognition of this fact and understanding that just because the current conditions are not perfect, or are the way we would like them to be,as we are where we are. As an investor, I am content to accept good rather than perfect. Good meaning, the company I entrust with my investment with has, to date, weathered the financial storm and managed necessary changes to protect my/our funds. No losses. In our tunnel vision bubble, we may not recognise how good and commendable this is.
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cb25
Posts: 3,528
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Post by cb25 on Aug 28, 2020 20:07:19 GMT
I said I knew them, I never said I endorsed them ! DYOR as I give no opinion. And we have, from 2013, always be very clear that a sustainable business doesn’t just serve one stakeholder group but instead we, unusually, balance the needs and rewards of all stakeholders in order to create a sustainable business - something the investment world would do well to emulate in my opinionated view. Fairer growth for all. We’d like to be here, serving lenders, borrowers, shareholders and colleagues in 2100. There is no sensible alternative to this route and approach. The interconnectivity and reliance on each stakeholder is vital for the continued success of all parties. There should be recognition of this fact and understanding that just because the current conditions are not perfect, or are the way we would like them to be,as we are where we are. As an investor, I am content to accept good rather than perfect. Good meaning, the company I entrust with my investment with has, to date, weathered the financial storm and managed necessary changes to protect my/our funds. No losses. In our tunnel vision bubble, we may not recognise how good and commendable this is. It's simply not true to say there have been 'No losses', as I've had losses declared in the last 3 tax years. Might be true to say "no overall losses (profits-losses)", but even that is helped by AC refusing to call in loans such as #227, which they allow to be continally kicked down the road by the borrower making ever more incredible claims of 'full payment in a year or so, vs total devastation now". In practise, capital valuation heading south, not a single £1 paid in 3 years (on an 18 month loan!). AC's help in getting our money back? Absolutely zero.
Compare this with RS, where I've never had a single £1 of losses declared, and they're returning money far faster than AC.
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Post by df on Aug 28, 2020 20:27:17 GMT
Just to clarify. Any withdrawal request still gets repayments. Cash to withdraw (without a discount) is still on the market - it is just waiting for a match with a buyer at zero discount. Although it might be a long wait. I get some small withdrawals almost every day. None of it is discounted, just my old (pre-pandemic) withdrawal schedule seems to be still working despite discounts available on the market.
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alender
Member of DD Central
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Post by alender on Aug 28, 2020 20:28:27 GMT
Sounds like Stuart knows much better places to invest in than his own company also.😀👍 As I said AC offered a really good alternative to a bank account until it lost the plot & lost sight of its need to serve the needs of its primary stakeholders - its lenders. Seriously Ian, if you honestly believe that HSG or similar property investment bonds is a better place to invest. You really NEED to do some research. Associated words such as misleading, unregulated, investigation and FCA are not hard to find. As a young investor, I paid the price in believing financial snake oil salesman with professional looking websites. To add some more balance a little while before I invested in AC AAs as a balance I bought some shares in what was P2P and is now PSSL at £7.92 on 23/2/17, this is a company specialising in loans so not too dissimilar to AC. I have been getting 6% pa, no missed payments, no reduction in dividends, no lock ins and are at a current price of £8.50 and if I wish I can cash in any time, this gives me a total return of 26%. Perhaps AC should look towards the people running the loan book for PSSL given the track record.
I could have chosen other examples which would have given a greater return but this is the one I invested in which is the closest to AC, I invested in PSSL and AC as I wanted to balance my equity portfolio with loan companies. Unfortunately I thought AC was a safer bet so placed substantially more money with them although the return was less.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Aug 28, 2020 20:39:14 GMT
There is no sensible alternative to this route and approach. The interconnectivity and reliance on each stakeholder is vital for the continued success of all parties. There should be recognition of this fact and understanding that just because the current conditions are not perfect, or are the way we would like them to be,as we are where we are. As an investor, I am content to accept good rather than perfect. Good meaning, the company I entrust with my investment with has, to date, weathered the financial storm and managed necessary changes to protect my/our funds. No losses. In our tunnel vision bubble, we may not recognise how good and commendable this is. It's simply not true to say there have been 'No losses', as I've had losses declared in the last 3 tax years. Might be true to say "no overall losses (profits-losses)", but even that is helped by AC refusing to call in loans such as #227, which they allow to be continally kicked down the road by the borrower making ever more incredible claims of 'full payment in a year or so, vs total devastation now". In practise, capital valuation heading south, not a single £1 paid in 3 years (on an 18 month loan!). AC's help in getting our money back? Absolutely zero.
Compare this with RS, where I've never had a single £1 of losses declared, and they're returning money far faster than AC.
Some recoveries take longer where they are proactive, yes. Slower than just throwing out to auction etc. We are evaluating if this is attractive to investors and yes that one has taken longer than we would like. We aim to speed up and deliver better value than a simple and quick exit in cases that merit it. More on that in due course. The cost of Ratesetter’s guarantees proved too much in the end and so whilst it delivered fantastic results for many years, the question is was it sustainable over 100 years ? Our real world return is part of our strategy and we intend to continue that even in these interesting times. It is with deep sadness that they have left the retail direct lending world as they delivered great value to retail investors. We do appreciate this engagement by the way and are opening an “ask the panel” facility on our website shortly to better engage with Q&A’s on how the platform works, how we think and how we could serve you better In order to look after everyone’s capital and returns. We are accountable in particular through our long term returns and ideally low volatility over that long term and absolutely we want to be measured versus other investment options.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Aug 28, 2020 20:44:10 GMT
Seriously Ian, if you honestly believe that HSG or similar property investment bonds is a better place to invest. You really NEED to do some research. Associated words such as misleading, unregulated, investigation and FCA are not hard to find. As a young investor, I paid the price in believing financial snake oil salesman with professional looking websites. To add some more balance a little while before I invested in AC AAs as a balance I bought some shares in what was P2P and is now PSSL at £7.92 on 23/2/17, this is a company specialising in loans so not too dissimilar to AC. I have been getting 6% pa, no missed payments, no reduction in dividends, no lock ins and are at a current price of £8.50 and if I wish I can cash in any time, this gives me a total return of 26%. Perhaps AC should look towards the people running the loan book for PSSL given the track record.
I could have chosen other examples which would have given a greater return but this is the one I invested in which is the closest to AC, I invested in PSSL and AC as I wanted to balance my equity portfolio with loan companies. Unfortunately I thought AC was a safer bet so placed substantially more money with them although the return was less.
And regarding PSSL returns, the Investment Trusts tend to use significant leverage to pay their slightly elevated returns to investors whilst also paying substantial fees to the managers. It’s a bit like having a house with a mortgage rather than unleveraged, good on the way up and bad on the way down. We don’t use any leverage so safer in times like recent months we feel.
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ian
Posts: 342
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Post by ian on Aug 28, 2020 20:47:54 GMT
I said I knew them, I never said I endorsed them ! DYOR as I give no opinion. And we have, from 2013, always be very clear that a sustainable business doesn’t just serve one stakeholder group but instead we, unusually, balance the needs and rewards of all stakeholders in order to create a sustainable business - something the investment world would do well to emulate in my opinionated view. Fairer growth for all. We’d like to be here, serving lenders, borrowers, shareholders and colleagues in 2100. Where was the balance when AC decided to to give flat rate repayments In AAs leaving the larger lenders with a more toxic set of loans which might/will (who knows from the info given out so far) be untradable.
In the interest of balance please can you tell me which of your accounts have been a success for lenders. I have made a list but there may have been more.
MLA GBA1 GBA2 GEA
QAA 30D 90D
I understand some people have made money from trading or getting out before the problems come to light but I would like to know how you view you success for lenders who have stuck with you (and are now stuck) pre and post covid.
Yes decided to screw over larger investors to divert flak me thinks 😀 get numbers effected down & more manageable 😀... anyhow we will see ... the day of reckoning will be soon doubtless
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Mikeme
Member of DD Central
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Post by Mikeme on Aug 28, 2020 20:59:06 GMT
Where was the balance when AC decided to to give flat rate repayments In AAs leaving the larger lenders with a more toxic set of loans which might/will (who knows from the info given out so far) be untradable.
In the interest of balance please can you tell me which of your accounts have been a success for lenders. I have made a list but there may have been more.
MLA GBA1 GBA2 GEA
QAA 30D 90D
I understand some people have made money from trading or getting out before the problems come to light but I would like to know how you view you success for lenders who have stuck with you (and are now stuck) pre and post covid.
Yes decided to screw over larger investors to divert flak me thinks 😀 get numbers effected down & more manageable 😀... anyhow we will see ... the day of reckoning will be soon doubtless Simply not true!
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ian
Posts: 342
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Post by ian on Aug 28, 2020 21:12:47 GMT
Sounds like Stuart knows much better places to invest in than his own company also.😀👍 As I said AC offered a really good alternative to a bank account until it lost the plot & lost sight of its need to serve the needs of its primary stakeholders - its lenders. Seriously Ian, if you honestly believe that HSG or similar property investment bonds is a better place to invest. You really NEED to do some research. Associated words such as misleading, unregulated, investigation and FCA are not hard to find. As a young investor, I paid the price in believing financial snake oil salesman with professional looking websites. I use the experience of money in money out! If I want long term use the stock market which for me is up 30% yoy (unbelievably lucky/ good judgement who knows😀) ....As regards HSG their CEO actually speaks to investors (unlike arrogant RBS lot @ assetz) ...late accounts... I actually took that up with them and they passed me on to somebody @ PWC given they are proposing a float .... PROPER advisors ... not a just a firm that uses his mates as they share Teeing off times in Southport?  Assetz have disadvantaged larger investors for years with their gimmicks to attract new & not reward the loyal .... ha ho .. lets hope they prosper for everybody sake ... Nobody wants then to fail least of all the bartenders of south Manchester 👋
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alender
Member of DD Central
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Post by alender on Aug 28, 2020 21:16:33 GMT
I understand some people have made money from trading or getting out before the problems come to light but I would like to know how you view you success for lenders who have stuck with you (and are now stuck) pre and post covid.
It's an interesting question but surely only one that can be answered well and truly 'post covid'? Hopefully we'll all still be around in a couple of years time to find out. Or are you expecting an answer before that long? (And, if so, what kind of time-frame did you have in mind and why?) Also - and I have my own thoughts on what I would consider a success - but what would you consider to be a success for those "lenders who have stuck with you (and are now stuck) pre and post covid"? Good points, perhaps we could get answers on the accounts which closed pre-covid, i.e. GBBA1, GBBA2 and GBA, we will need to wait some time to see how much we lose on the AAs.
The time frame I have is the longest loan in my AA when I requested withdrawal of my funds (the time frame of a resolution event), I think it about 3 years but I expected the bulk of my money returned long before then as each loan matures. A success would be returns of something like PSSL which I have quoted as an alternative and I can get hold of all my money any time the LSE is open but this is a pipe dream, there management seem to be far better at lending money than AC but unfortunately I am now having to prepare for loses and selling better investments to tide me over until I can release substantial funds from AC. I will probably have to look at the SM as an option as this has now stopped any chance of new money entering the AAs so the repayments will be slower from now. There is also the chance the FOM/FCA will force AC to return more investor funds but this will take a time.
The sad thing is the so called more risky investments in shares, investments trusts etc. have turned out to be far less risky than AC with access to my funds at all times just in case of emergencies or perhaps even better opportunities.
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alender
Member of DD Central
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Post by alender on Aug 28, 2020 21:19:53 GMT
To add some more balance a little while before I invested in AC AAs as a balance I bought some shares in what was P2P and is now PSSL at £7.92 on 23/2/17, this is a company specialising in loans so not too dissimilar to AC. I have been getting 6% pa, no missed payments, no reduction in dividends, no lock ins and are at a current price of £8.50 and if I wish I can cash in any time, this gives me a total return of 26%. Perhaps AC should look towards the people running the loan book for PSSL given the track record.
I could have chosen other examples which would have given a greater return but this is the one I invested in which is the closest to AC, I invested in PSSL and AC as I wanted to balance my equity portfolio with loan companies. Unfortunately I thought AC was a safer bet so placed substantially more money with them although the return was less.
And regarding PSSL returns, the Investment Trusts tend to use significant leverage to pay their slightly elevated returns to investors whilst also paying substantial fees to the managers. It’s a bit like having a house with a mortgage rather than unleveraged, good on the way up and bad on the way down. We don’t use any leverage so safer in times like recent months we feel. But unfortunately it is not the case my investment in PSSL has substantially outperformed AC in pre and post covid times.
As you rightfully say a leveraged company like PSSL should have performed worse post covid but the fact is it performed better, therefore the most obvious reason for this is the quality of the loan managers and their decisions, firstly do not promise money you do not have in good times as it will bite you in bad times. In a a way this is a sort of future leverage as it allows you to take on loans without the money to service the full life of the loan, this is a risky strategy as you are promising future money on yesterdays risk assessment. There are other issues like forbearance and if companies like PSSL give a capital repayment all shareholders get the payout in proportion to their holding. This way all shareholders are proportionally stuck with the same bad loans, this is a more balanced approach.
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