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Post by martin44 on Apr 15, 2020 20:25:09 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 15, 2020 22:31:53 GMT
Sorry to be a party pooper but : (a) "we should all help if we can" : There are millions of charities. I will not be dictated to or peer-pressured into who I do or who I do not support. (b) As far as I'm concerned my bit for donating to the NHS is done through my taxes. The fact the government prefers words over actions ("look at this pretty green CARERS badge" vs PPE and testing) is not my problem. Nor am I convinced that the present problem (PPE and testing) will be solved by throwing money at an independent charity. The long-term NHS problems need deep government level intervention, which will take (assuming government interest in the first place) a lot of time, effort and a *lot* more money than a few million quid from a charity. A/ - Reasonable point although I suppose you don't need to feel peer-pressured. I get your point although not so important IMO. B/ Very interesting and I think I'm in agreement. I don't want to live in a country where the health of most people is determined by how many folk donate to various charities. The NHS is a huge organisation and therein lies a number of it's problems but it absolutely should not rely on philanthropy for its existence. It needs serious funding from all of us via our taxes. As an aside I've never liked the "free at the point of use" dogma. Yes for emergencies but (for example) I'd be quite happy to pay twenty quid to see my GP if I knew I wasn't going to be rushed and I wouldn't have to wait a week to see him. Yes I know the real cost is far higher but a small amount from those than can pay would help and it might also reduce cancelled/no-show appointments.
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pip
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Post by pip on Apr 16, 2020 8:44:06 GMT
I don't think anybody is arguing that donations will materially impact the funding of the NHS in the short or long term materially. I think that the fundraising is more an opportunity for people to feel like they are making some difference at this time. It's a funny sort of crisis, apart from buying some shopping for people isolating and staying at home, it's hard for most people who are not medically trained to actually make much of an impact. For all the negative talk of society, I suspect there are a lot of people who are frustrated that they are not able to help more and this is a nice outlet. Will it change the world no, is it a long term solution for funding the NHS no, just a nice little initiative which is making an old man proud, making donors feel like they are at least doing something and raising some cash for the NHS. There are many other things that I would criticise before this.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Apr 16, 2020 8:54:13 GMT
I miss sport especially the football.
Not sure watching an old codger walking with a 'walking thingy' across his patio (billed as walking around a garden) wearing a blazer and war medals is the replacement I was seeking. However it seem currently £12,347,330 disagrees with my view.
So I can only tip my hat in respect, and wonder at the thought process of the average person.
Why the BBC (and presumably other media) feel the need to be camped out on the lawn is a totally different question altogether.
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Post by martin44 on Apr 16, 2020 21:23:21 GMT
Sorry to be a party pooper but : (a) "we should all help if we can" : There are millions of charities. I will not be dictated to or peer-pressured into who I do or who I do not support. (b) As far as I'm concerned my bit for donating to the NHS is done through my taxes. The fact the government prefers words over actions ("look at this pretty green CARERS badge" vs PPE and testing) is not my problem. Nor am I convinced that the present problem (PPE and testing) will be solved by throwing money at an independent charity. The long-term NHS problems need deep government level intervention, which will take (assuming government interest in the first place) a lot of time, effort and a *lot* more money than a few million quid from a charity. Thanks for your post.. no one is dictating anything to you ... nor pressuring you to support anyone or thing. And as far as i'm concerned , if you choose not to donate, then no need to post your vitriol here... and in addition, there is no suggestion that any donation is for PPE /testing or any long term nhs problems, its about a 99 yr old captain, who has a higher regard for the NHS than you. Ill support him as will others, you can do whatever you like.
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Post by martin44 on Apr 16, 2020 22:05:42 GMT
Sorry to be a party pooper but : (a) "we should all help if we can" : There are millions of charities. I will not be dictated to or peer-pressured into who I do or who I do not support. (b) As far as I'm concerned my bit for donating to the NHS is done through my taxes. The fact the government prefers words over actions ("look at this pretty green CARERS badge" vs PPE and testing) is not my problem. Nor am I convinced that the present problem (PPE and testing) will be solved by throwing money at an independent charity. The long-term NHS problems need deep government level intervention, which will take (assuming government interest in the first place) a lot of time, effort and a *lot* more money than a few million quid from a charity. A/ - Reasonable point although I suppose you don't need to feel peer-pressured. I get your point although not so important IMO. B/ Very interesting and I think I'm in agreement. I don't want to live in a country where the health of most people is determined by how many folk donate to various charities. The NHS is a huge organisation and therein lies a number of it's problems but it absolutely should not rely on philanthropy for its existence. It needs serious funding from all of us via our taxes. As an aside I've never liked the "free at the point of use" dogma. Yes for emergencies but (for example) I'd be quite happy to pay twenty quid to see my GP if I knew I wasn't going to be rushed and I wouldn't have to wait a week to see him. Yes I know the real cost is far higher but a small amount from those than can pay would help and it might also reduce cancelled/no-show appointments. I agree with you on your point B, but there are many ways the the govt "could" support the nhs secondarily, it happens in other countries, the usa charges the esta to all eu visitors, and others, turkey is a pay as you enter or go home cash option.. and others.. here's a couple of easy options.... A/ visitors nhs support .... £10 per person.... would people not come to the uk for the sake of a tenner?
B/ aviation tax's.... anyone in the uk who flys on a third occasion in any year pays an additional aviation tax... say £25... these are easy to implement and no businessman is not going to fly because he has to pay an extra £25. C/ whatever you think is fair and appropriate. As you say yourself "Id be quite happy to pay" ..... TBH.... i'm sure most people would be.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 17, 2020 0:37:06 GMT
I was very pro "pay for no shows" until I spoke to some doctor friends of mine. Like the psychiatrist, who some weeks has 40% no shows, because his patients have mental health issues. Or the radiologist, who deals with all sorts of people from all walks of life, including people like the mum who turned up for her daughter's appointment... without her daughter.
It's a problem. I'm not convinced that making people pay for appointments (or no shows) is necessarily the answer.
I wish I had one.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Apr 17, 2020 7:20:54 GMT
I agree with you on your point B, but there are many ways the the govt "could" support the nhs secondarily, it happens in other countries, the usa charges the esta to all eu visitors, and others, turkey is a pay as you enter or go home cash option.. and others.. here's a couple of easy options.... A/ visitors nhs support .... £10 per person.... would people not come to the uk for the sake of a tenner?
B/ aviation tax's.... anyone in the uk who flys on a third occasion in any year pays an additional aviation tax... say £25... these are easy to implement and no businessman is not going to fly because he has to pay an extra £25. C/ whatever you think is fair and appropriate. As you say yourself "Id be quite happy to pay" ..... TBH.... i'm sure most people would be. A/ In theory, not a bad idea. However, not possible until after Brexit (no, it hasn't happened yet). It'll also cause other countries to introduce reciprocal measures. It'd also create some demand and expectation of treatment as the availability of 'free at the point of delivery' healthcare in the UK becomes more widely know about B/ Something similar was a policy in the LibDem manefesto at the last election. Completely unworkable and un-policeable. I have one business trip per year, so now my summer holiday is more expensive? I take an outbound flight with BA, but a return flight with Lufthansa. How is anyone going to keep track of how many flights I've taken? I do support the concept of - say - £20 charge to see a GP if I don't have to wait a week. Of course, you can't charge for no-shows, and perhaps only higher rate tax payers have to pay, and the charge only applies a max of once per month?
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Post by skidrow on Apr 17, 2020 10:21:35 GMT
I have no problem with the suggestion that we all should consider donating to the NHS because at least it brings our attention to the underfunding that has gone on over the last decade. It doesn't appeal to me though.
Taxation is the way to fund the NHS, not charitable giving. If we are unwilling to pay sufficient taxes then we have the NHS we deserve. It's tough on the workers and patients but we seem happy to vote for it.
It has turned my stomach to watch Johnson and Hancock clapping for the NHS while knowing that back in 2017 when there was a cap on NHS pay, they both voted for the cap to continue. It was finally lifted the following year. According to the RCN the pay of nurses has fallen by 8% in real terms (adjusted for the CPI) since the Conservatives came to power in 2010. Also according to the RCN, nurse vacancies are currently running at 40,000 for England alone. While charitable giving is generally to be applauded, a change in political will is needed here.
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad on Apr 17, 2020 15:41:13 GMT
And as far as i'm concerned , if you choose not to donate, then no need to post your vitriol here... and in addition, there is no suggestion that any donation is for PPE /testing or any long term nhs problems, its about a 99 yr old captain, who has a higher regard for the NHS than you. martin44 ... Regarding "higher regard for the NHS than you".... f* you, f* you and f* you again. ... You can stick it where the sun doesn't shine as far as I'm concerned. Please calm down. The forum can do without this type of post.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Apr 17, 2020 15:54:15 GMT
martin44 ... Regarding "higher regard for the NHS than you".... f* you, f* you and f* you again. ... You can stick it where the sun doesn't shine as far as I'm concerned. Please calm down. The forum can do without this type of post. I was trying to isolate it to quote this morning, however my motive was less pure. I was going to suggest they registered it on the rather dubious poll on increased sexual activity currently running.
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Post by moonraker on Apr 17, 2020 15:55:39 GMT
I have no problem with the suggestion that we all should consider donating to the NHS because at least it brings our attention to the underfunding that has gone on over the last decade. It doesn't appeal to me though. Taxation is the way to fund the NHS, not charitable giving. If we are unwilling to pay sufficient taxes then we have the NHS we deserve. It's tough on the workers and patients but we seem happy to vote for it. It has turned my stomach to watch Johnson and Hancock clapping for the NHS while knowing that back in 2017 when there was a cap on NHS pay, they both voted for the cap to continue. It was finally lifted the following year. According to the RCN the pay of nurses has fallen by 8% in real terms (adjusted for the CPI) since the Conservatives came to power in 2010. Also according to the RCN, nurse vacancies are currently running at 40,000 for England alone. While charitable giving is generally to be applauded, a change in political will is needed here. It will be interesting to see what tangible rewards (ie pay increases) will be made to NHS workers - and others - at the next round of pay increases. No doubt people will be reminding Boris about how his life was saved.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Apr 17, 2020 16:13:53 GMT
I am totally cheesed off with the NHS too. Now's the time to tear it down,overwelm it and show it for the bloated facade it really is . Its taken years to get to this level but it's time to clear it out . I hope I'm not collateral damage ,but probably will be. Maybe the Old Soldier's handout will cover the pay of the top 5 executives and the rest of us will pay with our lives for their gravy train.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 17, 2020 16:41:34 GMT
I have no problem with the suggestion that we all should consider donating to the NHS because at least it brings our attention to the underfunding that has gone on over the last decade. It doesn't appeal to me though. Taxation is the way to fund the NHS, not charitable giving. If we are unwilling to pay sufficient taxes then we have the NHS we deserve. It's tough on the workers and patients but we seem happy to vote for it. It has turned my stomach to watch Johnson and Hancock clapping for the NHS while knowing that back in 2017 when there was a cap on NHS pay, they both voted for the cap to continue. It was finally lifted the following year. According to the RCN the pay of nurses has fallen by 8% in real terms (adjusted for the CPI) since the Conservatives came to power in 2010. Also according to the RCN, nurse vacancies are currently running at 40,000 for England alone. While charitable giving is generally to be applauded, a change in political will is needed here. It will be interesting to see what tangible rewards (ie pay increases) will be made to NHS workers - and others - at the next round of pay increases. No doubt people will be reminding Boris about how his life was saved. Doctors' pay is down over 20% in real terms in 10 years - pay freezes for several years, fortunate to get 1% on a couple of years, Pay Review recommendations ignored in whole or part. I wouldn't hold out much hope of even a part of that being recouped. The only hope is that the increased job satisfaction from actually doing medicine rather than all the bureaucratic cr*p - which magically turns out to be unnecessary when the chips are down - can be continued. But I wouldn't bet on that either.
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Post by martin44 on Apr 17, 2020 20:44:19 GMT
And as far as i'm concerned , if you choose not to donate, then no need to post your vitriol here... and in addition, there is no suggestion that any donation is for PPE /testing or any long term nhs problems, its about a 99 yr old captain, who has a higher regard for the NHS than you. martin44 Regarding "it's about a 99yr old captain". That's the problem with charity in the UK, its all about sob-stories and heart-strings. Today it's a 99-yr old captain, tomorrow its some kid on its death bed, the day after its some african kid with flies up its nose. People should make their own decisions about who they do and do not want to support, they should not rely on media stories (or people like you on forums) telling them who to support. Regarding "higher regard for the NHS than you".... f* you, f* you and f* you again. You don't know me. You don't know my acquaintances. You've no clue about how much I know from multiple angles about what is going on at the NHS. You have no idea just how much money I donate to charities every year. Which is the reason I won't fall for sob-stories and heart-strings fed to me by the media or by you. In particular you don't know what, through my contacts book, I am doing for the NHS at the current time. Hint, its somewhat more than just throwing money at some old codger. You can stick it where the sun doesn't shine as far as I'm concerned. why is it acceptable for you to be an idiot... yet not acceptable for me to point it out.
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