cb25
Posts: 3,528 
Likes: 2,668
|
Post by cb25 on Mar 24, 2021 12:13:05 GMT
I wonder how big the exit queue is these days? Its now been a year since lenders were locked in to the "access" accounts and after all that time there is still no end in sight. The queue is large enough for AC to have come up with the idea of "exit accounts" where they can get rid of these problem investors who would like their money returned to them, although this will take several more years and relies on the loans actually paying back. Alternatively you can just remain in the "access" account forever reinvesting in new loans but without actually being able to get your money out. Once again AC have come up with a way of keeping their gravy train going at the expense of lenders. AC seem to have completely forgotten the point of P2P lending. Lend money, and when it repays return the repayments to lenders. Why not just do this? Look at Ratesetter - they also had an exit queue in the hundreds of millions but each day for several months they returned repayments to investors and in the end the exit queue was cleared and the accounts were run down. No-one lost any money and it was returned in an orderly and transparent fashion. The access accounts are in run down and the sooner AC acknowledge this and just get on with giving lenders their money back the better. Alternatively, lenders can currently exit at the cost of £1 per £1,000 withdrawn (about 10 days lost interest?).
|
|
lobster
Member of DD Central
Posts: 636
Likes: 467
|
Post by lobster on Mar 24, 2021 12:25:34 GMT
I know times are hard and money precious but holy sh1t. It costs £10 per £10,000 to sell on SM. Is there no end to this? Seriously , why don't lenders do this ?? Is 0.1% really an issue ?? Really ?? Or do some folks just like to have something to moan about ? 
|
|
iRobot
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,680
Likes: 2,477
|
Post by iRobot on Mar 24, 2021 12:58:20 GMT
I wonder how big the exit queue is these days? Its now been a year since lenders were locked in to the "access" accounts and after all that time there is still no end in sight. The queue is large enough for AC to have come up with the idea of "exit accounts" where they can get rid of these problem investors who would like their money returned to them, although this will take several more years and relies on the loans actually paying back. Alternatively you can just remain in the "access" account forever reinvesting in new loans but without actually being able to get your money out. Once again AC have come up with a way of keeping their gravy train going at the expense of lenders. Not surprisingly given the nature of the opening post in this thread, there is a huge amount of assumption in the above and no substantive reasoning. Best wait for the detailed comms on the actual mechanism to be deployed before jumping to conclusions, IMO. I think this rather glosses over the actualities of the situation at RS. For RS, the strict queuing system was maintained and there are dozens of posts on this forum from lenders that were deeply concerned about the time it would take to see any funds returned due to their position in that queue. Fortunately for those lenders, IMO, RS' fragile financial position made them an attractive acquisition target for Metro Bank and, rather than try to tough it out (possibly with disastrous results for lenders at the rear of the queue) RS chose to close up shop, sold of the family silver and then allowed MB to tidy up the toxic remains of what was left by undertaking in some observers estimations (including my own) a 'bail-out'. Had it not been for MB's acquisition I think this would have turned out very, VERY differently at RS. There are a number of folk who would disagree with you. Their view is that by being trapped they have missed out on opportunities to make substantial gains elsewhere and the platform is to blame for this. It's not a view I agree with, but there you go ... So far, I've not lost any money with AC. I've earned interest during the past year and had approximately 70% of my capital returned with signs or more to come. Will I receive it all? Time will tell but - as many have pointed out - I needn't wait and you don't need to either. The price of an exit ticket is currently 0.1% of your (remaining) holding. I agree that Access V1.0 are notionally in rundown and I would hope that V2.0 doesn't include the 'Access' in the title, but regardless of what it's called, there will still be those who will either genuinely regard them as savings accounts or consider themselves too intelligent to get trapped by events beyond their control until a black swan event such as CV19 casts an all to bright light on their ignorance and/or arrogance.
|
|
alanh
Posts: 556
Likes: 560
|
Post by alanh on Mar 24, 2021 14:03:44 GMT
I wonder how big the exit queue is these days? Its now been a year since lenders were locked in to the "access" accounts and after all that time there is still no end in sight. The queue is large enough for AC to have come up with the idea of "exit accounts" where they can get rid of these problem investors who would like their money returned to them, although this will take several more years and relies on the loans actually paying back. Alternatively you can just remain in the "access" account forever reinvesting in new loans but without actually being able to get your money out. Once again AC have come up with a way of keeping their gravy train going at the expense of lenders. Not surprisingly given the nature of the opening post in this thread, there is a huge amount of assumption in the above and no substantive reasoning. Best wait for the detailed comms on the actual mechanism to be deployed before jumping to conclusions, IMO. I think this rather glosses over the actualities of the situation at RS. For RS, the strict queuing system was maintained and there are dozens of posts on this forum from lenders that were deeply concerned about the time it would take to see any funds returned due to their position in that queue. Fortunately for those lenders, IMO, RS' fragile financial position made them an attractive acquisition target for Metro Bank and, rather than try to tough it out (possibly with disastrous results for lenders at the rear of the queue) RS chose to close up shop, sold of the family silver and then allowed MB to tidy up the toxic remains of what was left by undertaking in some observers estimations (including my own) a 'bail-out'. Had it not been for MB's acquisition I think this would have turned out very, VERY differently at RS. There are a number of folk who would disagree with you. Their view is that by being trapped they have missed out on opportunities to make substantial gains elsewhere and the platform is to blame for this. It's not a view I agree with, but there you go ... So far, I've not lost any money with AC. I've earned interest during the past year and had approximately 70% of my capital returned with signs or more to come. Will I receive it all? Time will tell but - as many have pointed out - I needn't wait and you don't need to either. The price of an exit ticket is currently 0.1% of your (remaining) holding. I agree that Access V1.0 are notionally in rundown and I would hope that V2.0 doesn't include the 'Access' in the title, but regardless of what it's called, there will still be those who will either genuinely regard them as savings accounts or consider themselves too intelligent to get trapped by events beyond their control until a black swan event such as CV19 casts an all to bright light on their ignorance and/or arrogance. IRobot your point regarding lenders being deeply concerned about the return of funds could be applied to virtually any platform, not least AC where the flat distribution system would have led to virtually 100% losses for large investors. And whilst it is true that Metro took Ratesetter over, do not forget that this was in September. In the previous 6 months Ratesetter returned tens of millions of £ of lenders money and provided daily updates - this was well documented on the RS board here. By the time Metro took them over the vast majority of the exit queue was cleared. What it really demonstrates is a completely different mindset at RS. They were the custodians of lenders money, and when it was repaid it was returned to lenders promptly - simple, effective and exactly what it was supposed to be. AC have yet to show any inclination to return money to lenders and are much more concerned with working out ways to keep hold of repayments by locking investors in or forcing those that wish to exit into run off accounts that will take years to repay (if they repay at all) that they can then just forget about (like all the various other now defunct AC zombie accounts). Very suspicious and untrustworthy actions IMO.
|
|
johni
Member of DD Central
Posts: 369
Likes: 329
|
Post by johni on Mar 24, 2021 15:07:05 GMT
Not surprisingly given the nature of the opening post in this thread, there is a huge amount of assumption in the above and no substantive reasoning. Best wait for the detailed comms on the actual mechanism to be deployed before jumping to conclusions, IMO. I think this rather glosses over the actualities of the situation at RS. For RS, the strict queuing system was maintained and there are dozens of posts on this forum from lenders that were deeply concerned about the time it would take to see any funds returned due to their position in that queue. Fortunately for those lenders, IMO, RS' fragile financial position made them an attractive acquisition target for Metro Bank and, rather than try to tough it out (possibly with disastrous results for lenders at the rear of the queue) RS chose to close up shop, sold of the family silver and then allowed MB to tidy up the toxic remains of what was left by undertaking in some observers estimations (including my own) a 'bail-out'. Had it not been for MB's acquisition I think this would have turned out very, VERY differently at RS. There are a number of folk who would disagree with you. Their view is that by being trapped they have missed out on opportunities to make substantial gains elsewhere and the platform is to blame for this. It's not a view I agree with, but there you go ... So far, I've not lost any money with AC. I've earned interest during the past year and had approximately 70% of my capital returned with signs or more to come. Will I receive it all? Time will tell but - as many have pointed out - I needn't wait and you don't need to either. The price of an exit ticket is currently 0.1% of your (remaining) holding. I agree that Access V1.0 are notionally in rundown and I would hope that V2.0 doesn't include the 'Access' in the title, but regardless of what it's called, there will still be those who will either genuinely regard them as savings accounts or consider themselves too intelligent to get trapped by events beyond their control until a black swan event such as CV19 casts an all to bright light on their ignorance and/or arrogance. IRobot your point regarding lenders being deeply concerned about the return of funds could be applied to virtually any platform, not least AC where the flat distribution system would have led to virtually 100% losses for large investors. And whilst it is true that Metro took Ratesetter over, do not forget that this was in September. In the previous 6 months Ratesetter returned tens of millions of £ of lenders money and provided daily updates - this was well documented on the RS board here. By the time Metro took them over the vast majority of the exit queue was cleared. What it really demonstrates is a completely different mindset at RS. They were the custodians of lenders money, and when it was repaid it was returned to lenders promptly - simple, effective and exactly what it was supposed to be. AC have yet to show any inclination to return money to lenders and are much more concerned with working out ways to keep hold of repayments by locking investors in or forcing those that wish to exit into run off accounts that will take years to repay (if they repay at all) that they can then just forget about (like all the various other now defunct AC zombie accounts). Very suspicious and untrustworthy actions IMO. Let's not let facts get in the way of another good whinge for god sake stomach £200 and get out the accounts can be shown as full amount withdrawn and you put the £200 in! What actually happened at Ratesetter was withdrawals were very slow for 6 months the property portfolio was finally sold as the company was in wind down that is when a bulk of money was returned. But the big point you forgot to mention was the 50% cut in interest rates which was after several cuts over the previous 12 months. So massively different to AC.
|
|
alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 981
Likes: 683
|
Post by alender on Mar 24, 2021 15:15:01 GMT
Add Growth Street to the list of P2P companies who kept to the rules, returned lenders money ASAP.
AC are doing all they can to hold onto as much lenders money as possible, they created the SM so lenders could get out without AC paying out any money and the Fans and associates of AC could tell everyone to stop moaning and sell on the SM, some even think it is fine to insult those who question what AC are doing. From what I have heard the same thing is happening on Trust Pilot.
I cannot believe that RS were in too much of a difficult financial position otherwise who would want to take them over, are anyone interested in AC? if not does that say something about AC when compared to RS.
When I compared my experience with ACI formally PSSL an investment trust quoted on the LSE to AC as both are investments in Loan companies I was told on this board (by the same group who attack me for anything I say against AC) I was wrong they probable had issues that were somehow not shown in the books etc. End result taken over for about 10% more than I paid for them with a constant set of dividends never once cancel or reduced and always higher than I got in the best times from AC.
Given all the games played by AC staring with the Flat rate payments I find it hard to believe that RS investors had more concerns that those in AC, for me GS and ACI (these are all my other loan investments) have caused far less concern that the goings on at AC, mostly around rule changes, ridged votes etc. During the time of the Flat rate payments I was very concerned that as a large investor I would see very little of my money with AC again
IMO what has saved AC and it lenders is the Government support and the large payments being made now could well be the result of the FCA who have expressed concern over Financial companies during Covid holding onto funds which have been requested for withdraw.
Just to make it clear there are number of very well informed people on here who put up good arguments against some of my posts which is all part of normal debate, these people contribute a lot to this board with lots of useful data, so I am not referring to them when I say attack and insult.
|
|
iRobot
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,680
Likes: 2,477
|
Post by iRobot on Mar 24, 2021 15:21:35 GMT
IRobot your point regarding lenders being deeply concerned about the return of funds could be applied to virtually any platform, not least AC where the flat distribution system would have led to virtually 100% losses for large investors. Please explain your reasoning behind this statement; perhaps give a numerically based example? What do you regard to be "a large investor"; please state a numerical value. My rationale for finding the assertion so hard to comprehend is that significant sums have been returned in total (regardless of the structure in place) and that any single investors maximum investment was capped. The announcement of the acquisition was early August 2020, but discussions negotiations would have been taking place many months before then. Furthermore, looking at the number of repayments made after Aug 2020 according to star dust 's tracker post suggests to me that " the vast majority of the exit queue" wasn't anything like as cleared as you might believe. The sale of the property loanbook to Shawbrook in Dec 2020 was a significant contributing factor to the accelerated repayments - as you say, this is well documented for all to see - and the purchase of the remaining back book in Feb 2021 sealed the deal. So who is it that has repaid 70% of my capital, has paid interest on the remainder? If it isn't AC, I'd very much like to shake them by the hand! 
|
|
alanh
Posts: 556
Likes: 560
|
Post by alanh on Mar 24, 2021 15:28:23 GMT
IRobot your point regarding lenders being deeply concerned about the return of funds could be applied to virtually any platform, not least AC where the flat distribution system would have led to virtually 100% losses for large investors. And whilst it is true that Metro took Ratesetter over, do not forget that this was in September. In the previous 6 months Ratesetter returned tens of millions of £ of lenders money and provided daily updates - this was well documented on the RS board here. By the time Metro took them over the vast majority of the exit queue was cleared. What it really demonstrates is a completely different mindset at RS. They were the custodians of lenders money, and when it was repaid it was returned to lenders promptly - simple, effective and exactly what it was supposed to be. AC have yet to show any inclination to return money to lenders and are much more concerned with working out ways to keep hold of repayments by locking investors in or forcing those that wish to exit into run off accounts that will take years to repay (if they repay at all) that they can then just forget about (like all the various other now defunct AC zombie accounts). Very suspicious and untrustworthy actions IMO. Let's not let facts get in the way of another good whinge for god sake stomach £200 and get out the accounts can be shown as full amount withdrawn and you put the £200 in! What actually happened at Ratesetter was withdrawals were very slow for 6 months the property portfolio was finally sold as the company was in wind down that is when a bulk of money was returned. But the big point you forgot to mention was the 50% cut in interest rates which was after several cuts over the previous 12 months. So massively different to AC.Completely wrong. Ratesetter returned over £100 million to lenders over those 6 months (all very well documented on the RS board). I wouldn't call that slow. "massively different to AC" - yes. RS lenders have been sitting on 100% return of requested capital for several months. AC lenders can now choose to be abandoned or locked in. Nice.
|
|
ceejay
Posts: 975
Likes: 1,149
|
Post by ceejay on Mar 24, 2021 15:45:27 GMT
Completely wrong. Ratesetter returned over £100 million to lenders over those 6 months (all very well documented on the RS board). I wouldn't call that slow. "massively different to AC" - yes. RS lenders have been sitting on 100% return of requested capital for several months. AC lenders can now choose to be abandoned or locked in. Nice.Or they can choose to give up about 10 days worth of interest and exit cleanly (except for a certain lender who has tied himself in knots of his own construction and who is consequently making absurdly disproportionately loud noises here and, doubtless, elsewhere). I see the Exit Account as a means for AC to call the bluff of the whingers...
|
|
iRobot
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,680
Likes: 2,477
|
Post by iRobot on Mar 24, 2021 15:47:32 GMT
I cannot believe that RS were in too much of a difficult financial position otherwise who would want to take them over
Hmmmn, 2017: RS raise £13m and stated a notional valuation of £200m. 2020: MetroBank pays £12M for them. Either MB have really, REALLY good negotiators, or .... ? IMO, MB wanted the brand and the platform tech. Again IMO, MB didn't even want the back book, but saw taking it on as a 'necessary evil' to ward off issues further down the line.
|
|
alender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 981
Likes: 683
|
Post by alender on Mar 24, 2021 15:47:58 GMT
Please explain your reasoning behind this statement; perhaps give a numerically based example? What do you regard to be "a large investor"; please state a numerical value. So who is it that has repaid 70% of my capital, has paid interest on the remainder? If it isn't AC, I'd very much like to shake them by the hand! I can only give my example of the Flat rate payments, if they carried on with this at best it would have taken hundreds of years for me to be repaid. What was looking most likely at the time was all the good loans repaid, the smaller investors get out with no loses, the larger investors left with a load of non performing loans with very little chance of getting much back from the basket cases of loans that were left. From the debate at the time, my calculations and others a large investor was anyone with more than about £20,000 invested, Stuart stated a much larger sum which did not fit the data but refused to back it up with data. IMO we were saved by the Government actions not AC otherwise many more loans would have gone bad, before the Government actions came into effect things were looking very bad for large investors.
AC made the payments but I believe it is 70% because of the FCA, (as I have stated) the FCA have expressed concern over Financial companies holding onto funds during Covid which should have been repaid or perhaps all the complaints sent to AC which are now in the hands of the FOM which as far as I can tell has not got round to dealing any of them yet.
|
|
johni
Member of DD Central
Posts: 369
Likes: 329
|
Post by johni on Mar 24, 2021 20:12:35 GMT
Let's not let facts get in the way of another good whinge for god sake stomach £200 and get out the accounts can be shown as full amount withdrawn and you put the £200 in! What actually happened at Ratesetter was withdrawals were very slow for 6 months the property portfolio was finally sold as the company was in wind down that is when a bulk of money was returned. But the big point you forgot to mention was the 50% cut in interest rates which was after several cuts over the previous 12 months. So massively different to AC.Completely wrong. Ratesetter returned over £100 million to lenders over those 6 months (all very well documented on the RS board). I wouldn't call that slow. "massively different to AC" - yes. RS lenders have been sitting on 100% return of requested capital for several months. AC lenders can now choose to be abandoned or locked in. Nice. So come on why dont you take the 0.1% hit and put the money in yourself? Job done no more sleepless nights. No more dronning on for us . Constant whinging about AC. It seems all you are interested in is posting the same message day in day out. Yes your were not happy but this is now all your own making
|
|
ashtondav
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 1,092
|
Post by ashtondav on Mar 24, 2021 20:29:53 GMT
Tell you what, why don’t we have a whip round and donate the 0.1% to him? You know what? I’d double it just for the peace and quiet!
|
|
|
|
Post by df on Mar 24, 2021 21:28:19 GMT
Completely wrong. Ratesetter returned over £100 million to lenders over those 6 months (all very well documented on the RS board). I wouldn't call that slow. "massively different to AC" - yes. RS lenders have been sitting on 100% return of requested capital for several months. AC lenders can now choose to be abandoned or locked in. Nice. So come on why dont you take the 0.1% hit and put the money in yourself? Job done no more sleepless nights. No more dronning on for us . Constant whinging about AC. It seems all you are interested in is posting the same message day in day out. Yes your were not happy but this is now all your own making I've just reinvested my todays MLA and 90-day payouts into 30-day at par. Would've been nice to have it done @-0.1%, but it doesn't seem to be on offer anymore. Hardly anything on MLA, my orders are gradually filling up, but very slowly. Doesn't look like there is much hunger for "ACexit".
|
|
cb25
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 2,668
|
Post by cb25 on Mar 24, 2021 21:35:16 GMT
So come on why dont you take the 0.1% hit and put the money in yourself? Job done no more sleepless nights. No more dronning on for us . Constant whinging about AC. It seems all you are interested in is posting the same message day in day out. Yes your were not happy but this is now all your own making I've just reinvested my todays MLA and 90-day payouts into 30-day at par. Would've been nice to have it done @-0.1%, but it doesn't seem to be on offer anymore. Hardly anything on MLA, my orders are gradually filling up, but very slowly. Doesn't look like there is much hunger for "ACexit". There certainly doesn't seem to be much demand to exit the AAs at very modest cost, given there's at least £25K of orders to buy at 0.1% discount unmatched by sellers.
|
|
