blender
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Post by blender on May 30, 2020 12:55:55 GMT
Normal market conditions are those within which AC can provide the returns and access which they advertise. If they cannot provide the returns and access advertised then, ergo, market conditions are abnormal.
Abnormal market conditions? We cannot allow you to withdraw your cash, we cannot pay the expected interest rate, we cannot pay the incentive bonus as contracted, we need to take some of your returns as fees to be able to continue to manage your loans. Oh, and a friendly robot insists that if you dare to ask for your cash again we should remove your interest completely. OK? Is that not normal platform conditions ? Normal market conditions and normal platform conditions could be perceived as 2 different things. Which market are you talking about - The AA market? As we were never prive to knowing what was going on behinds the scenes, Prior to MID March who is to say what normal market conditions were ? How much money was available in the AA queue at any given time then compared to now ? AC have done a great job in p!ssing off the retail side of their business. Until they start funding the retail sector nothing will get better for us, and I doubt we will ever know 100% what normal market conditions are. I think you missed the tautology in my definition. You don't have to say which market. If AC cannot provide that which they claim to provide under normal market conditions, then that is, by definition, abnormal market conditions. When it happens, that is when AC will identify which abnormal market conditions have caused the problem. They do not set it out in advance - that would be very silly, a hostage to fortune. You say 'normal market conditions are what we have at the present time', implying that abnormal market conditions would be some significant change of some sort - any sort. The viral unpleasantness is abnormal by any reasonable definition, but I think we also came close when the FCA caused a crisis in December.
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Post by valueinvestor123 on May 30, 2020 14:30:50 GMT
What constitutes 'normal market conditions'? I mean one can argue that since there will always be worries about the future, it may never happen? I am curious what sort of 'markers' is Assetz waiting for? Spread betting companies occasionally increase margin rates when there are days of high volatility. But this only is for a short time typically. People still go to shops, pay rent, try to survive & get on with their life. Some assets will not be worth as much as before. What if this is the 'new normal'? Or who decides what is normal? I think it's obvious what normal market conditions are, the return to how things were before mid March, enough liquidity to allow instant withdrawal from Access Accounts. AC can't do anything to get back to normal market conditions except tinker around the edges, it's lenders money that took themselves out of normal market conditions and only lenders money can put themselves back into normal market conditions, AC doesn't have a magic money tree and compared to lenders are insignificant anyway. As some have said we might not ever see the old 'normal' although I suspect Covid will fade rapidly in most people's memory after a few months. I don’t think it is clear at all actually. What ‘market’ are we talking about? AC’s market? Property market? Some other market? If it turns out that property market is stable but Assetz still can’t get lenders to lend money via their platform for various reason, they can just keep arguing that market conditions are abnormal. It’s all very fudgy & amateurish and open to subjective interpretation. I think they should just convert to a private equity investment trust, trade on the stock market and pay a dividend.
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Post by honda2ner on May 30, 2020 19:20:55 GMT
I think it's obvious what normal market conditions are, the return to how things were before mid March, enough liquidity to allow instant withdrawal from Access Accounts. AC can't do anything to get back to normal market conditions except tinker around the edges, it's lenders money that took themselves out of normal market conditions and only lenders money can put themselves back into normal market conditions, AC doesn't have a magic money tree and compared to lenders are insignificant anyway. As some have said we might not ever see the old 'normal' although I suspect Covid will fade rapidly in most people's memory after a few months. I don’t think it is clear at all actually. What ‘market’ are we talking about? AC’s market? Property market? Some other market? If it turns out that property market is stable but Assetz still can’t get lenders to lend money via their platform for various reason, they can just keep arguing that market conditions are abnormal. It’s all very fudgy & amateurish and open to subjective interpretation. I think they should just convert to a private equity investment trust, trade on the stock market and pay a dividend. Really? So when you need to buy a new microwave, you study some reviews for washing machines? They are both white goods after all. The market in question is the AC AAs *obviously*, the property market can do what it likes but that is a secondary effect that might or might not help so is no help in deciding whether normal conditions exist in a different market. AC doesn't need to argue that we are in abnormal market conditions it's bleedin' obvious we are and when the AAs can trade freely again it will be just as obviously back in normal conditions (or all the loans have paid back/defaulted). It's ever so simple and I fail to see why you are labouring to amateurishly fudge it into something it isn't. There is a possibility that the property market crashes and burns but by some miracle all of ACs loans repay (slim chance I know but it exists), then you will be the only one arguing that the Access Accounts aren't in normal operating conditions and everyone else will be wondering what you have been smoking.
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Post by valueinvestor123 on May 31, 2020 17:18:14 GMT
I don’t think it is clear at all actually. What ‘market’ are we talking about? AC’s market? Property market? Some other market? If it turns out that property market is stable but Assetz still can’t get lenders to lend money via their platform for various reason, they can just keep arguing that market conditions are abnormal. It’s all very fudgy & amateurish and open to subjective interpretation. I think they should just convert to a private equity investment trust, trade on the stock market and pay a dividend. Really? So when you need to buy a new microwave, you study some reviews for washing machines? They are both white goods after all. The market in question is the AC AAs *obviously*, the property market can do what it likes but that is a secondary effect that might or might not help so is no help in deciding whether normal conditions exist in a different market. AC doesn't need to argue that we are in abnormal market conditions it's bleedin' obvious we are and when the AAs can trade freely again it will be just as obviously back in normal conditions (or all the loans have paid back/defaulted). It's ever so simple and I fail to see why you are labouring to amateurishly fudge it into something it isn't. There is a possibility that the property market crashes and burns but by some miracle all of ACs loans repay (slim chance I know but it exists), then you will be the only one arguing that the Access Accounts aren't in normal operating conditions and everyone else will be wondering what you have been smoking. Not sure I agree with the analogy. It is more like if Assetz were trying to sell washing machines, claiming they were dish washers. People keep buying them and washing their dishes in them...Until one day someone realises that actually they are completely useless at washing dishes...Assetz panic, lock in everyone's money and claim that we now enter 'abnormal market conditions' (because suddenly everyone realises the true risks as they become exposed). Now they can sit there and claim that market conditions may not return to normal until everyone is once again convinced that those washing machines are dish washers...But eternity is a long time to wait. And in any case: who wants to participate in a market (or even call it that) that is so remarkably sensitive? I don't honestly know of any 'market' that not only locks you in, but then starts charging you extra for not being able to withdraw your money. This is some kind of bizzarro world...
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Post by valueinvestor123 on May 31, 2020 19:05:31 GMT
Normal market conditions are those within which AC can provide the returns and access which they advertise. If they cannot provide the returns and access advertised then, ergo, market conditions are abnormal.
Abnormal market conditions? We cannot allow you to withdraw your cash, we cannot pay the expected interest rate, we cannot pay the incentive bonus as contracted, we need to take some of your returns as fees to be able to continue to manage your loans. Oh, and a friendly robot insists that if you dare to ask for your cash again we should remove your interest completely. OK? I could advertise all kinds of  and if I can't deliver, I could just say that 'the market is abnormal' and keep the money. This is the trouble with these outfits, some of them seem to be detached from reality unfortunately. Peer2peer could be such a simple and viable concept yet some try to make it so complicated with all these various layers of different accounts where risk cannot be priced by investors (but the platform apparently can). All you need are assets, valued conservatively, that can be sold/called upon reasonably quickly. Not some pie in the sky valuation with a promise of a cherry and total lack of transparency introduced by various different 'black box' accounts. It's a shame. The next few years will be painful.
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Post by df on May 31, 2020 19:09:54 GMT
Really? So when you need to buy a new microwave, you study some reviews for washing machines? They are both white goods after all. The market in question is the AC AAs *obviously*, the property market can do what it likes but that is a secondary effect that might or might not help so is no help in deciding whether normal conditions exist in a different market. AC doesn't need to argue that we are in abnormal market conditions it's bleedin' obvious we are and when the AAs can trade freely again it will be just as obviously back in normal conditions (or all the loans have paid back/defaulted). It's ever so simple and I fail to see why you are labouring to amateurishly fudge it into something it isn't. There is a possibility that the property market crashes and burns but by some miracle all of ACs loans repay (slim chance I know but it exists), then you will be the only one arguing that the Access Accounts aren't in normal operating conditions and everyone else will be wondering what you have been smoking. Not sure I agree with the analogy. It is more like if Assetz were trying to sell washing machines, claiming they were dish washers. People keep buying them and washing their dishes in them...Until one day someone realises that actually they are completely useless at washing dishes...Assetz panic, lock in everyone's money and claim that we now enter 'abnormal market conditions' (because suddenly everyone realises the true risks as they become exposed). Now they can sit there and claim that market conditions may not return to normal until everyone is once again convinced that those washing machines are dish washers...But eternity is a long time to wait. And in any case: who wants to participate in a market (or even call it that) that is so remarkably sensitive? I don't honestly know of any 'market' that not only locks you in, but then starts charging you extra for not being able to withdraw your money. This is some kind of bizzarro world.. Not quite... if you put a couple of plates in the washing machine for a test drive you won't be repeating it again  . Also "charging extra for not being able to withdraw" sounds misleading. The fee is for performing loans only (and only in MLA).
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on May 31, 2020 20:24:10 GMT
Normal market conditions are exactly what AC say they are. Nothing more, nothing less. This reminds me a bit of TomTom:
- you buy a satnav which is advertised as free map updates for life
- when TomTom get fed up with providing updates for free, they redefine the term life to mean the effective life of the device
- TomTom then define effective life as the period of time for which updates are produced
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jun 1, 2020 11:06:16 GMT
Tosh. There is precisely one market that is relevant here, and that is the market to buy or sell AC's Access Accounts. Everything else is secondary. When the balance swung heavily towards people wanting out, we left "normal". End of. Tosh all you like! The reality that seems to be lost on most here is that the access accounts are currently in “ normal market conditions”. It is highly normal that instant liquidity isn’t normally available from illiquid, maturity-mismatched investments. The non-normal market conditions WERE pre-March 2020 when the mirage of instant access was being sustained on a fragile mixture of a pyramid of growth and high confidence. Growth and confidence have been shot to pieces, at least for now, and to compound matters maturities just took a step change up. I stand by my “two” definitions! If a market has operated in the same way since its inception it would be difficult not to accept the conditions as the norm. The issue for me would be how long does the the abnormal need to be around for before it became the new norm?
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 1, 2020 11:28:46 GMT
So, when the new access account SM starts operating in the current abnormal genaral conditions, that will be normal conditions for that market? And when 'normal' general conditions return, the access account SM will be in abnormal conditions?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 1, 2020 12:19:35 GMT
If a market has operated in the same way since its inception it would be difficult not to accept the conditions as the norm. The issue for me would be how long does the the abnormal need to be around for before it became the new norm? That is currently one of life's known unknowns.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Sept 3, 2020 10:32:49 GMT
Here seemed as good a place as any for this ...
Just received my first "Upcoming loan ... " email in what seems like a very long time - #1281.
A small sign of things gradually returning to normality?
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dave4
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Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Sept 3, 2020 10:36:29 GMT
Here seemed as good a place as any for this ... Just received my first "Upcoming loan ... " email in what seems like a very long time - #1281. A small sign of things gradually returning to normality? Ping ? O and mine just arrived as i red this Thanks.
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Post by df on Sept 3, 2020 10:42:11 GMT
Here seemed as good a place as any for this ... Just received my first "Upcoming loan ... " email in what seems like a very long time - #1281. A small sign of things gradually returning to normality? E-mail says that it is "now available for investment", but there is no option to invest in upcoming loans (at least on my dashboard). I'll try tomorrow.
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tarq
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Post by tarq on Sept 3, 2020 10:46:03 GMT
Can't see how too invest though!
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Post by Ace on Sept 3, 2020 10:49:49 GMT
I haven't received the email. I've checked spam folder and checked that I have the upcoming loans notification setting on  |
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and if I can't deliver, I could just say that 'the market is abnormal' and keep the money. This is the trouble with these outfits, some of them seem to be detached from reality unfortunately.
. Also "charging extra for not being able to withdraw" sounds misleading. The fee is for performing loans only (and only in MLA). 
