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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 8, 2023 9:10:29 GMT
Pub in grotty bit of South Essex. ABSOLUTELY insistent that they are allowed gollys on display behind the bar, despite previous strops over keeping them there - 2018: www.thurrockgazette.co.uk/news/15991563.white-hart-pub-grays-determined-not-remove-golliwogs-despite-council-investigation/"literally the history of our country", "part of our heritage", "some people may not like them and they are entitled to that view, but they don't have to come into the pub."
Yeh. Right. Seeing and smelling smoke does not always mean there's a fire, but... A quick google finds photos of them from the 2018 strop... There's a fake driving licence photocard for "Golly" on display, giving place of birth as "SE9 Alabama". For those unfamiliar with the grottier corners of South London, SE9 is the Eltham/Falconwood part of London, best known for the murder of Stephen Lawrence and the former headquarters of the BNP. For his press photocall, the landlord chose a polo shirt with a logo on the breast - a Maltese Cross with crossed swords behind it. 2+2 is definitely starting to look to be in the region of 3.75 to 4.25. I have to admit I read the original link provided by ilmoro, and my thoughts were there is more behind this, though quite what six police officers had to do with I don't know, but then I've only actually seen 2 in the pictures. And I doubt very strongly they came on some quick response, unless it was a very quiet day in Essex. What you've posted as background doesn't exactly come as a shock: wot, me, a touch racist. No guv. Definitely not me.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 8, 2023 9:44:17 GMT
I thought the pub is located in RM17, rated 4.0 on google maps with 17 racist tags not liking those displays.
I have no idea whether the pub is full of racist customers, or giving a racist or friendly customer service.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 8, 2023 10:36:35 GMT
Pub in grotty bit of South Essex. ABSOLUTELY insistent that they are allowed gollys on display behind the bar, despite previous strops over keeping them there - 2018: www.thurrockgazette.co.uk/news/15991563.white-hart-pub-grays-determined-not-remove-golliwogs-despite-council-investigation/"literally the history of our country", "part of our heritage", "some people may not like them and they are entitled to that view, but they don't have to come into the pub."
Yeh. Right. Seeing and smelling smoke does not always mean there's a fire, but... A quick google finds photos of them from the 2018 strop... There's a fake driving licence photocard for "Golly" on display, giving place of birth as "SE9 Alabama". For those unfamiliar with the grottier corners of South London, SE9 is the Eltham/Falconwood part of London, best known for the murder of Stephen Lawrence and the former headquarters of the BNP. For his press photocall, the landlord chose a polo shirt with a logo on the breast - a Maltese Cross with crossed swords behind it. 2+2 is definitely starting to look to be in the region of 3.75 to 4.25. I have to admit I read the original link provided by ilmoro , and my thoughts were there is more behind this, though quite what six police officers had to do with I don't know, but then I've only actually seen 2 in the pictures. And I doubt very strongly they came on some quick response, unless it was a very quiet day in Essex. What you've posted as background doesn't exactly come as a shock: wot, me, a touch racist. No guv. Definitely not me. Of course there was going to be more to it, hence the parody comment on the headline ... the actual video shows a police mini-van waiting in the car park until another patrol car arrives. 6 officers then leisurely stroll into the bar as a customer holds the door open. As for grotty part of Essex ... looks far from it on a quick GM tour, beach, yacht club, local college, maybe the sun helps ... obviously cant comment on the inhabitants, dont want to go all Emily.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2023 11:01:00 GMT
I discussed the idea of "over loading a crime scene with police" with some of our local cops. They believe that with any group where arrests of unknown numbers might occur it is better to go mob-handed as some people just need talking to, some need being arrested and some just need to watch out for further crimes. A recent speed pull over on our street (small A road) had 12 officers (different types) within minutes they were all busy. This included car document errors, drugs, speeding, attempts to escape, physical attack and two illegal immigrants (who were easy to manage).
If you are planning an activity don't come away with wounded officers or failed activity.
The behaviour of the British has collapsed after Covid and pro-crime TV I think
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Apr 8, 2023 11:23:39 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 8, 2023 11:24:07 GMT
As for grotty part of Essex ... looks far from it on a quick GM tour Have you ever been to Grays and Thurrock...? As for number of police... I was talking to some of our local mountain rescue volunteers. They'd had a big life-and-death callout a little while back - 2am, five police working with them to find a vulnerable person. That was the ENTIRETY that was on-shift within that force's area for probably 40 or 50 miles...
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 8, 2023 11:38:59 GMT
As for grotty part of Essex ... looks far from it on a quick GM tour Have you ever been to Grays and Thurrock...? As for number of police... I was talking to some of our local mountain rescue volunteers. They'd had a big life-and-death callout a little while back - 2am, five police working with them to find a vulnerable person. That was the ENTIRETY that was on-shift within that force's area for probably 40 or 50 miles... 35 years ago & then only to the pool for meets so never Grays. Hence the taking a look on GM.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 8, 2023 12:35:37 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 8, 2023 13:16:08 GMT
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 8, 2023 14:48:19 GMT
I have to admit I read the original link provided by ilmoro , and my thoughts were there is more behind this, though quite what six police officers had to do with I don't know, but then I've only actually seen 2 in the pictures. And I doubt very strongly they came on some quick response, unless it was a very quiet day in Essex. What you've posted as background doesn't exactly come as a shock: wot, me, a touch racist. No guv. Definitely not me. Of course there was going to be more to it, hence the parody comment on the headline ... the actual video shows a police mini-van waiting in the car park until another patrol car arrives. 6 officers then leisurely stroll into the bar as a customer holds the door open. As for grotty part of Essex ... looks far from it on a quick GM tour, beach, yacht club, local college, maybe the sun helps ... obviously cant comment on the inhabitants, dont want to go all Emily. I hadn't looked at the vid (indeed hadn't realised there was one) just read the article. Not being from Essex, I have no idea about the locale. And I've never watched TOWIE (whatever the hell that actually is).
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 8, 2023 14:52:38 GMT
As for grotty part of Essex ... looks far from it on a quick GM tour Have you ever been to Grays and Thurrock...? As for number of police... I was talking to some of our local mountain rescue volunteers. They'd had a big life-and-death callout a little while back - 2am, five police working with them to find a vulnerable person. That was the ENTIRETY that was on-shift within that force's area for probably 40 or 50 miles...that is not uncommon. Bracknell has a population of around 125,000. While it (just about) still has a Neighbourhood team at Bracknell, response is now covered from Reading.
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 8, 2023 14:57:15 GMT
I discussed the idea of "over loading a crime scene with police" with some of our local cops. They believe that with any group where arrests of unknown numbers might occur it is better to go mob-handed as some people just need talking to, some need being arrested and some just need to watch out for further crimes. Quite. This was a pub, for which there had been some form of racism complaint. We doin't know it was "just" about the GWs or whether someone had also been given some verbals. And there has been prior history with the pub, and one assumes has a clientele that might be a touch sympathetic to the owners. Therefore going in "mob handed" would have been the only sensible operational decision. I also suspect it was a planned operation rather than a response job, unless there had also been an assault or similar associated with the complaint. Apart from simple clientele numbers, you don't know which idiot with a snooker cue, or pool balls, loaded on lager, is going to take offence at what is happening. Quantity has a quality all of its own, as they say.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 8, 2023 15:05:29 GMT
When groups first assimilated into the UK there was widespread racism. Now that there is far les of it, some go for the nuances and details. As far as I'm concerned, if a person disregards the colour of skin or race of someone then that person is not a racist. The definition that Wiki gives would make being a racist the only rational state of being which is clearly nonsense (there are biological differences such as diseases present in some groups and not others etc). So long as these are not exaggerated or exploited to demean in any way any person due to the fact that he is a member of that group, then common sense tells me racism is not at play. Putting those dolls there is likely an act of racism in my view on the grounds that if I was a black person, I'd be pretty uncomfortable there solely because of the colour of my skin.
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 8, 2023 17:46:34 GMT
When groups first assimilated into the UK there was widespread racism. Now that there is far les of it, some go for the nuances and details. As far as I'm concerned, if a person disregards the colour of skin or race of someone then that person is not a racist. The definition that Wiki gives would make being a racist the only rational state of being which is clearly nonsense (there are biological differences such as diseases present in some groups and not others etc). So long as these are not exaggerated or exploited to demean in any way any person due to the fact that he is a member of that group, then common sense tells me racism is not at play. Putting those dolls there is likely an act of racism in my view on the grounds that if I was a black person, I'd be pretty uncomfortable there solely because of the colour of my skin.On the first point, I agree there is less of it, and far less of it publicly expressed. Nonetheless, I have over the last few years been coming to the conclusion that there is sadly more of it in UK society than I had thought. But perhaps we are sometimes duped because expression of it it is more self-suppressed - in the sense of not being vocalised - because it has become less acceptable to express it in 'polite circles'. Regardless, I don't think we have the same level of quite deeply embedded racism that exists in for example many parts of the US. On the second point: well quite. If one was to balance the odds as to why they have them, between A) the owners have a deep love and affection for golliw*gs because of their beauty/cuddliness/aesthetic appeal/they cuddled up to them as kids, and that love transcends any reasonable concerns of racist overtones; or B) its a way they can give a not terribly subtle message that they don't like blacks (or perhaps just all non-whites); they are not welcome in their establishment but same thinking people definitely are, and do it without being arrested for inciting racial hatred, then I think we now where we'd be laying our bets.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 8, 2023 18:10:42 GMT
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