agent69
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Post by agent69 on Feb 15, 2022 20:37:39 GMT
Joe Biden currently giving a news conference on the latest situation in Ukraine. Shame he can't pronounce the name of the capital correctly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2022 21:41:23 GMT
KEE-eve not KEE-yev is how I understand it but I'm no expert
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Feb 15, 2022 21:54:18 GMT
KEY ev
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 15, 2022 22:41:33 GMT
Well it's definitely CH-IC-KEN - so I suspect the waiter will understand the order. 😁
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 16, 2022 7:54:35 GMT
Unfortunately that is a view that starts from a point of assuming both rationality and that he is receiving advice that matches reality on the ground. People in his position have a habit of ending up distanced from both: surrounded by people who's primary function is to tell him what he wants to hear and to burnish his ego. So sadly I am far from convinced he is going to back down now. I would say at this point that is a low probability, esp. as to date he hasn't 'won' anything he could easily point to as a reason to back down. I also think it is very likely that western intelligence are getting input from someone or some people at very senior levels in Russia: I don't think their messaging is simply done on the basis of what is happening on the ground. Oh, and we will disagree that Zelensky is in anyway a meaningful cause of Putin's actions. If the roots lie anywhere, it goes back to the Ukrainian people making known their collective desire to turn westward rather than eastward by ousting Yanukovych in 2014. Seeing his effective puppet chucked out and realising that an independent democratic Ukraine would decide that its future lay with closer ties to Europe and free western institutions is the boil that Putin wants to lance. .... The western press headlines were getting increasingly scary culminating yesterday with Sky I think it was running a headline something like "...bombs could drop on Ukraine in minutes if Putin gives the order...". Its also true that bombs could drop on London or New York in minutes IF Putin gave the order. Or indeed on Moscow if Biden gave the order... I don't know what is behind these ultra alarmist headlines - presumably just secret intel obtained by the Americans. I also don't know what the next step will be but I've always said an invasion unlikely and now I think increasingly so. The US in particular and the press in particular will have lost yet another notch of credibility over this..... He is a shrewd operator, popular in russia (although less so recently) even though I despise some of his antics such as locking up opposite politicians and assassinating enemies abroad (a tactic not unique to russia of course) and I similarly despise some of the things the US and even the UK get up to such as torture (just look at the picture en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_the_United_States#Torture_abroad)With regard to the first bolded part, the fundamental failure of logic in that is so obvious it doesn't need me to point it out. I agree he is a shrewd operator. He is also an authoritarian (and sociopath) who sits atop a powerful military machine and a country where access to information, internal debate and political discourse is very heavily stifled and increasingly so. It is therefore relatively easy for him to test the limits and fault lines in the coherence of a collection of democratic countries. [BTW, a very interesting piece of writing by William Hague in The Times a few days ago. here How the Ukraine crisis plays out in Putin’s head for anyone who has access to the times and not read it] On the final part. We can all agree that western democracies have done things which we would prefer they had not, particularly but not always necessarily with the benefit of hindsight. However, IMHO to draw a moral equivalence between the likes of the regimes and systems in Russia and/or China - or others with massive internal repressive and outward aggressive/expansionist behaviours and objectives - and open 'western style' liberal democracies is fundamentally wrong. When done in earnest it sheds far more light on the ethics/belief systems of those making such an equivalence than it does anything else. I hope you managed to get your family out of Kiev, and I hope that Putin chooses to not invade (whether he ever intended to or not).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2022 9:07:57 GMT
I don't often get to read our Moscow correspondent's musings but so far the only significant changes I've seen:
1) Nato is now stronger than ever before with wavering countries now fully back in line, and other countries considering accelerating joining
2) The US has demonstrated some leadership after the terrible "45" years
3) Putin has yet again been shown to be a lying bully with a murderous heart 4) RT is firmly under the Putin thumb and offers no honest information to its readers
I have to admit to prejudice in this but I thank god I never had to grow up in Russia, a number of my friends managed to escape from the Soviet system and did very well in the West but I'm not sure I would have had the strength to do the same and might have just swallowed the lies and worked there, who knows. The ones who got out had to suffer badly on their journey. The Russians I know now are all Oligarch staff and while they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them they have all aquired Western bolt holes for when the money nipple stops working.
Let us hope this all calms down soon.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danegeld is an English concept where we had to pay for being invaded time and time again. I guess Putin will be back after this embarrassement.
I doubt I will see a free Crimea in my lifetime, but then getting a free Eastern Germany was a wonderful surprise.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2022 18:49:42 GMT
The weak Putin war-monger continues
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 18, 2022 11:00:29 GMT
So now Russia has announced ballistic / cruise missile exercises for tomorrow, the 19th Feb.
Not exactly a de-escalation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 11:32:03 GMT
It does seem that Putin has badly misjudged the situation and is now looking for a face saver, even his athletes are proving to be drug ridden, again and again. When a cornered rat gets in this situation they do stupid things.
Don't listen to the voice, watch the hands
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 18, 2022 11:49:21 GMT
Don't listen to the voice Unfortunately if the world and its leaders have learnt any lesson at all over the last few years it's that they can lie to their peoples, and each other, with impunity .
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 18, 2022 12:04:47 GMT
Don't listen to the voice Unfortunately if the world and its leaders have learnt any lesson at all over the last few years it's that they can lie to their peoples, and each other, with impunity . ...and a substantial swathe of the electorate will not only overlook it, but actively reward it.
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Post by captainconfident on Feb 18, 2022 12:21:04 GMT
I don't think there will be a war. These running sores like Transdniestria, the Georgian enclaves, Donetsk, they are key parts of Russian strategy. An all out war in Ukriane would lead to pariah status for Russia, a quagmire of rebellion in Ukraine and critically, be against the wishes of most of the Russian people, dangerous for this regime.
The Russian style is menace the victim and extort a payoff. Like a protection racket. Whatever they get, they got it for free. While the NATO powers don't seem to understand this, the Ukrainan leaders certainly do. They know there won't be an invasion, but that the ruination of their economy is the actual goal and some kind of concession is the payoff needed to get the pressure taken off.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2022 12:58:16 GMT
I agree with all of that, except there is already a war, by the Russians failing to admit it hangs another tale of just being a neighbour
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 19, 2022 11:34:17 GMT
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 20, 2022 13:45:21 GMT
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