adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 6, 2024 16:47:47 GMT
Well, yes, you could give your house and all your money to the kidnapper. Then you could look surprised when the kidnapper does the same to the others down the street. I would assume that part of the price to be paid includes measures that ensures it cannot happen to houses down the street. The kidnapper swears, scouts honour... Do you believe him?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 6, 2024 16:50:21 GMT
If I lived in Eastern Europe I would 100% want my government to have good relations with the economic and military superpower next door also known as Russia. Have you looked at a map? It's over 750km from the nearest point in Hungary to the nearest point in Russia. France is over 100km nearer to Hungary than Russia is. Four EU and EEA countries share a land border with Russia - Hungary is not one of them.
France is not a Super power and probably never has been*. The nearest Superpower to most of Europe is Russia. This has been the case since the fall of Germany/UK as a superpower and their becoming a vassal of the US/USSR.
* - it has been a culinary and wine super power.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 6, 2024 16:52:08 GMT
Have you looked at a map? It's over 750km from the nearest point in Hungary to the nearest point in Russia. France is over 100km nearer to Hungary than Russia is. Four EU and EEA countries share a land border with Russia - Hungary is not one of them. France is not a Super power. The nearest Superpower to most of Europe is Russia. This has been the case since the fall of Germany as a superpower and its becoming a vassal of the US/USSR.
Russia is more of a "superpower" than France or Germany, and more than the combined EU. Gotcha. Care to explain in a bit more depth?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 6, 2024 16:54:43 GMT
France is not a Super power. The nearest Superpower to most of Europe is Russia. This has been the case since the fall of Germany as a superpower and its becoming a vassal of the US/USSR.
Russia is more of a "superpower" than France or Germany, and more than the combined EU. Gotcha. Care to explain in a bit more depth? It is time to wake up, they have basically just defeated the US (NATO) military industrial complex in Ukraine. The US has been exposed as having lost its technological advantage and its weak manufacturing base means it cannot win any convential war against either China or Russia.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jul 6, 2024 16:56:48 GMT
I would assume that part of the price to be paid includes measures that ensures it cannot happen to houses down the street. The kidnapper swears, scouts honour... Do you believe him? Need to be an agreement that doesn't depend on trust. Can't leave the status quo.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jul 6, 2024 17:00:44 GMT
Russia is more of a "superpower" than France or Germany, and more than the combined EU. Gotcha. Care to explain in a bit more depth? It is time to wake up, they have basically just defeated the US (NATO) military industrial complex in Ukraine. Did I miss something? Has Russia taken Kyiv, Odessa and Lviv? Were those cities being defended by NATO?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 6, 2024 17:00:49 GMT
Russia is more of a "superpower" than France or Germany, and more than the combined EU. Gotcha. Care to explain in a bit more depth? It is time to wake up, they have basically just defeated the US (NATO) military industrial complex in Ukraine. Well, no, they haven't. Despite the west making lots of promises of help then failing to fulfill them, Ukraine's held them to a standstill for nearly two and a half years.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 6, 2024 17:01:49 GMT
The kidnapper swears, scouts honour... Do you believe him? Need to be an agreement that doesn't depend on trust. Can't leave the status quo. Do go on... What form of agreement can you think of that would be somehow watertight in binding somebody like Putin?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 6, 2024 17:04:54 GMT
It is time to wake up, they have basically just defeated the US (NATO) military industrial complex in Ukraine. Did I miss something? Has Russia taken Kyiv, Odessa and Lviv? Were those cities being defended by NATO?
I didnt say they defeated NATO, I said they defeated the US MIC. US cant supply enough weapons to Ukraine to continue the fight and alot of the Military Technological Advantage they once had is gone - and most of the world now knows this. Game Over Neo-Cons*.
* - ALthough it is a terrible shame hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were killed for nothing. Ukrainians are very brave people which is why they have held out this long but at a terrible cost - and in my opinion they have been used to fight a war that was not in their interest and they could have avoided.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jul 6, 2024 17:23:12 GMT
Did I miss something? Has Russia taken Kyiv, Odessa and Lviv? Were those cities being defended by NATO?
I didnt say they defeated NATO, I said they defeated the US MIC. US cant supply enough weapons to Ukraine to continue the fight and alot of the Military Technological Advantage they once had is gone - and most of the world now knows this. Game Over Neo-Cons*.
* - ALthough it is a terrible shame hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were killed for nothing. Ukrainians are very brave people which is why they have held out this long but at a terrible cost - and in my opinion they have been used to fight a war that was not in their interest and they could have avoided.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. NATO air power involvement to date? Bar ISR nil. NATO naval involvement? Nil. NATO ground combat power? A hundred or so tanks, a few hundred out of date AFVs, ATGMs, ammo, SAMs / SHORAD. The "NATO MIC" has barely woken up.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 6, 2024 17:39:07 GMT
I didnt say they defeated NATO, I said they defeated the US MIC. US cant supply enough weapons to Ukraine to continue the fight and alot of the Military Technological Advantage they once had is gone - and most of the world now knows this. Game Over Neo-Cons*.
* - ALthough it is a terrible shame hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were killed for nothing. Ukrainians are very brave people which is why they have held out this long but at a terrible cost - and in my opinion they have been used to fight a war that was not in their interest and they could have avoided.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. NATO air power involvement to date? Bar ISR nil. NATO naval involvement? Nil. NATO ground combat power? A hundred or so tanks, a few hundred out of date AFVs, ATGMs, ammo, SAMs / SHORAD. The "NATO MIC" has barely woken up. I agree NATO has barely woken up, it is like Joe Biden.
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k6
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Post by k6 on Jul 6, 2024 17:43:33 GMT
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. NATO air power involvement to date? Bar ISR nil. NATO naval involvement? Nil. NATO ground combat power? A hundred or so tanks, a few hundred out of date AFVs, ATGMs, ammo, SAMs / SHORAD. The "NATO MIC" has barely woken up. I agree NATO has barely woken up, it is like Joe Biden. Someone is short of rubles ? You statements have only one purpose , just to keep conversation going but are very short of any reality
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jul 6, 2024 17:57:32 GMT
Have you looked at a map? It's over 750km from the nearest point in Hungary to the nearest point in Russia. France is over 100km nearer to Hungary than Russia is. Four EU and EEA countries share a land border with Russia - Hungary is not one of them.
France is not a Super power and probably never has been*. The nearest Superpower to most of Europe is Russia. This has been the case since the fall of Germany/UK as a superpower and their becoming a vassal of the US/USSR.
* - it has been a culinary and wine super power.
Never! It was back before Russia was even a concept ... then there was the bloke with the mirrors & sun shining out of his arse and then the short bloke with the sideways hat.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jul 6, 2024 18:04:53 GMT
Russia is more of a "superpower" than France or Germany, and more than the combined EU. Gotcha. Care to explain in a bit more depth? It is time to wake up, they have basically just defeated the US (NATO) military industrial complex in Ukraine. The US has been exposed as having lost its technological advantage and its weak manufacturing base means it cannot win any convential war against either China or Russia. The US MIC isnt even playing ... nearly everything sent to Ukr is from US stocks. The US has supplied little top line weaponry ... UKr is a very low sophistication battlefield in general.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jul 6, 2024 18:24:20 GMT
I didnt say they defeated NATO, I said they defeated the US MIC. US cant supply enough weapons to Ukraine to continue the fight and alot of the Military Technological Advantage they once had is gone - and most of the world now knows this. Game Over Neo-Cons*.
* - ALthough it is a terrible shame hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were killed for nothing. Ukrainians are very brave people which is why they have held out this long but at a terrible cost - and in my opinion they have been used to fight a war that was not in their interest and they could have avoided.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. NATO air power involvement to date? Bar ISR nil. NATO naval involvement? Nil. NATO ground combat power? A hundred or so tanks, a few hundred out of date AFVs, ATGMs, ammo, SAMs / SHORAD. The "NATO MIC" has barely woken up. To be fair there isn't a NATO MIC, there is an US MIC & then a few token bits elsewhere. The capacity of Europe inc UK to produce ammo is currently very limited & entirely predicated on US supply chains. Even with the US production is far behind Russia but then one is running a war economy & the other isn't.
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