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Post by overthehill on Jul 9, 2024 12:44:00 GMT
The problem with the Crimea argument is it is historically part of Russia Yeh, and Calais and Mumbai are both historically part of the UK, while Paris is historically part of Germany.
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Post by captainconfident on Jul 9, 2024 12:48:03 GMT
The problem with the Crimea argument is it is historically part of Russia Yeh, and Calais and Mumbai are both historically part of the UK, while Paris is historically part of Germany. Britain is historically a part if France, does 1066 mean nothing to you? It is certainly not part of Italy, Romans go home! And as for the Danelaw, no way. And as for Angles, Saxons and Jutes, forget it. Celts? You need to fight the French. Now, master the cultural history of Crimea. Its Greek. Its Turkish. Russia annexed it first in 1783 after war with Turkey and conducted protracted ethnic cleaning. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatarsen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jul 9, 2024 12:53:46 GMT
Yeh, and Calais and Mumbai are both historically part of the UK, while Paris is historically part of Germany. Britain is historically a part if France, does 1066 mean nothing to you? Rubbish. France is part of Britain ... 100 years war & all that.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jul 9, 2024 12:56:15 GMT
Britain is historically a part if France, does 1066 mean nothing to you? Rubbish. France is part of Britain ... 100 years war & all that. Rome says "hi".
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jul 9, 2024 13:56:34 GMT
Yeh, and Calais and Mumbai are both historically part of the UK, while Paris is historically part of Germany. Britain is historically a part if France, does 1066 mean nothing to you? It is certainly not part of Italy, Romans go home! And as for the Danelaw, no way. And as for Angles, Saxons and Jutes, forget it. Celts? You need to fight the French. Now, master the cultural history of Crimea. Its Greek. Its Turkish. Russia annexed it first in 1783 after war with Turkey and conducted protracted ethnic cleaning. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatarsen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimealet’s ask any Indian citizens if they feel India was part of Britain under the Queen Victoria, the Empress of India.
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Post by captainconfident on Jul 9, 2024 14:43:57 GMT
Britain is historically a part if France, does 1066 mean nothing to you? It is certainly not part of Italy, Romans go home! And as for the Danelaw, no way. And as for Angles, Saxons and Jutes, forget it. Celts? You need to fight the French. Now, master the cultural history of Crimea. Its Greek. Its Turkish. Russia annexed it first in 1783 after war with Turkey and conducted protracted ethnic cleaning. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatarsen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimealet’s ask any Indian citizens if they feel India was part of Britain under the Queen Victoria, the Empress of India. Perhaps Britain's claim to India would be stronger if we had deported/ murdered the population. It is easier to claim a place if you got rid of the original inhabitants, took their houses and property and changed all the place names to different Russian ones. I'm sure that's how international law works. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jul 9, 2024 14:51:53 GMT
Surely there are other ways too. Re-education, de facto language, tradition, cross-cultural marriage, the hardest one: out populate aboriginals. 🤣🤣🤣
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jul 9, 2024 17:36:54 GMT
It is easier to claim a place if you got rid of the original inhabitants, took their houses and property Agreed, like a small island in the ocean on the news today. However, I struggle to understand which superpower has the real control of the island when the world police blocks beeb’s representatives access to the island.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jul 9, 2024 17:49:29 GMT
Yeh, and Calais and Mumbai are both historically part of the UK, while Paris is historically part of Germany. Britain is historically a part if France, does 1066 mean nothing to you? It is certainly not part of Italy, Romans go home! And as for the Danelaw, no way. And as for Angles, Saxons and Jutes, forget it. Celts? You need to fight the French. Now, master the cultural history of Crimea. Its Greek. Its Turkish. Russia annexed it first in 1783 after war with Turkey and conducted protracted ethnic cleaning. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatarsen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimeaand then Germany occupied it. So it became theirs. Its a bit difficult to have a legitimate claim to somewhere under international law when you have actually previously given it away. Freely. As the USSR did when it transferred Crimea (by now downgraded to an oblast) to the Urkainian SSR in 1954. I mean at the point you say "here, have this. It's yours", you tend to lose all credibility - and more importantly, legitimacy - when you turn round later and say "its ours, its ours, its all ours. Honest".
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 9, 2024 18:27:04 GMT
Britain is historically a part if France, does 1066 mean nothing to you? It is certainly not part of Italy, Romans go home! And as for the Danelaw, no way. And as for Angles, Saxons and Jutes, forget it. Celts? You need to fight the French. Now, master the cultural history of Crimea. Its Greek. Its Turkish. Russia annexed it first in 1783 after war with Turkey and conducted protracted ethnic cleaning. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatarsen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimeaand then Germany occupied it. So it became theirs. Its a bit difficult to have a legitimate claim to somewhere under international law when you have actually previously decided to give it away. As the USSR did when it transferred Crimea (by now downgraded to an oblast) to the Urkainian SSR in 1954. I mean at the point you actually say "here, have this. It's yours", you tend to lose all credibility (and more importantly legitimacy) if you turn round later and say "its ours, its ours, its all ours. Honest". Next thing you know they'll want Alaska back.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 9, 2024 18:38:51 GMT
The problem with the Crimea argument is it is historically part of Russia Yeh, and Calais and Mumbai are both historically part of the UK, while Paris is historically part of Germany. I am primarily talking about the fact that there are a sizeable number of people in parts of Ukraine who consider themselves Russian and like the idea of being part of the Putin Federation. You combine that with the fact that a lot of the areas Russia wants to Annex also used to be part of Russia and then add the fact that there are some dangerous extremists in Ukraine who hate Russians and the whole thing becomes not totally clear cut from my perspective. Regardless of this, Russia's border disputes with Ukraine are nothing to do with me and are certainly not something I am willing to be turned into radioactive dust for.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jul 9, 2024 19:55:47 GMT
Yeh, and Calais and Mumbai are both historically part of the UK, while Paris is historically part of Germany. I am primarily talking about the fact that there are a sizeable number of people in parts of Ukraine who consider themselves Russian and like the idea of being part of the Putin Federation. You combine that with the fact that a lot of the areas Russia wants to Annex also used to be part of Russia and then add the fact that there are some dangerous extremists in Ukraine who hate Russians and the whole thing becomes not totally clear cut from my perspective. Regardless of this, Russia's border disputes with Ukraine are nothing to do with me and are certainly not something I am willing to be turned into radioactive dust for. I certainly agree with you final sentence as any sane person would. As for the "Russians in Ukraine" I've said it before but I think its a sliding scale. Just like the English in Wales. Some are more nationalistic than others, almost all speak english and a good proportion speak Ukranian Welsh. Those born and bred closer to the english border are more likely not to speak Welsh and vice-versa. It doesn't mean they are not Welsh.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jul 10, 2024 4:39:54 GMT
Well there’s a slight difference between self identity and nationality. In the United Kingdom case, more than half of the usual resident population (54.8%, 32.7 million) chose a "British" only national identity in 2021 census, which is a rise of 35.8 percentage points from 19.1% (10.7 million) in 2011. It’s okay for a Welsh person self identified as Welsh and it is also totally fine another Welsh person Identified as British but not Welsh. www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/bulletins/nationalidentityenglandandwales/census2021I’m sure there are other countries where people strongly feel about their nationality but self identified as “different” people living happily with rest of the people of the same “nationality”. Going back in times, would those Indian residents in India felt being “British” as when India was under British reign? Let’s ask any British National (overseas) BNO / BOTC passport holders how strongly they feel being “British”?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jul 10, 2024 12:54:25 GMT
Well there’s a slight difference between self identity and nationality. In the United Kingdom case, more than half of the usual resident population (54.8%, 32.7 million) chose a "British" only national identity in 2021 census, which is a rise of 35.8 percentage points from 19.1% (10.7 million) in 2011. It’s okay for a Welsh person self identified as Welsh and it is also totally fine another Welsh person Identified as British but not Welsh. www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/ethnicity/bulletins/nationalidentityenglandandwales/census2021I’m sure there are other countries where people strongly feel about their nationality but self identified as “different” people living happily with rest of the people of the same “nationality”. Going back in times, would those Indian residents in India felt being “British” as when India was under British reign? Let’s ask any British National (overseas) BNO / BOTC passport holders how strongly they feel being “British”? Probably more than you think - certainly I've met some with that view. Our empire didn't just enslave, murder and rape those they conquered as many others did before them. Roads, railways and good governance (little corruption) was achieved. I'm not saying it was all good by a long way but I think we behaved better than most invaders. Feeling "British" might be a stretch for most but their memories remind me of some of the memories those in Ukraine and Russia have of the USSR and it also ain't all bad as you might think.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 10, 2024 17:38:08 GMT
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