angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 29, 2024 21:51:21 GMT
Lets hope WW3 does not start in the middle east tonight. Chances of the end of the world starting in Ukraine is pretty low in my opinion (unless you are one of the poor bastards on the front line). Chances of it starting due to the current situation in the Middle East are a lot higher in my opinion. In theory Russia and Iran would be on one side but I haven't seen much coming out of the Russian side on the middle east - perhaps they would support Iran with arms but not sure they would spill blood over it ? Meanwhile, if Ukraine/west manages to destroy say the Kirsch bridge with the help of UK special forces how would Russia respond? It is very likely that in a major conflict between Israel and Iran that the US will get drawn in. If the US is involved in attacking Iran this could bring in Russia and China - both of whom have already been supplying Iran with advanced military technology. Even if the US stays out of it is possible Israel uses a nuke if the situation starts to go extremely badly for them. Hezbollah has 200,000 missiles and seem to be pretty confident they can cause serious damage to Israel. As for the situation in Ukraine it would be a lot more serious if Russia was not winning the war. If there was a risk that Russia could lose this war then yes it would worry me a lot more. As for Ukraine destroying the Kirsch bridge with the help of the UK I am not sure that would be possible, you would have to probably bomb it which neither Ukraine or the UK (or the US for that matter) is in a position to do. Israel is a nuclear power and is facing possible destruction in a war with Iran and its proxies (and possibly other actors in the region).
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 29, 2024 22:07:46 GMT
As for the situation in Ukraine it would be a lot more serious if Russia was not winning the war. Yeh, it's going swimmingly for them. Two and a half years into an invasion that Putin expected to last ten days... You keep talking about Ukrainian deaths - yet Russian losses are considerably higher. Recent credible estimates are around 12k Ukrainian civilian dead and 70k forces, against 125k Russian forces, are they not? That's a lot of blood on the hands of just one man, the only man whose bright idea this whole thing was. VVP. Oh, sorry... The bad men made him do it. I forgot. Why? Why do you think invasion of a sovereign neighbour is a good thing? Are there other countries you think Russia should invade? Do you think other countries have the same right? Which ones, or all of them?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 30, 2024 6:27:01 GMT
As for the situation in Ukraine it would be a lot more serious if Russia was not winning the war. Yeh, it's going swimmingly for them. Two and a half years into an invasion that Putin expected to last ten days... You keep talking about Ukrainian deaths - yet Russian losses are considerably higher. Recent credible estimates are around 12k Ukrainian civilian dead and 70k forces, against 125k Russian forces, are they not? That's a lot of blood on the hands of just one man, the only man whose bright idea this whole thing was. VVP. I dont know where you got these figures from (probably the BBC). If you think Ukraine has just lost 70k I have a bridge in London I can sell you. Some estimates is that they are currently losing 2000 a day - although this might include those surrendering to the Russians. I do not think the invasion of Ukraine is a good thing, I am against the Russian invasion of Ukraine and I am against the things that caused the Russians to invade. But from a purely personal perspective my main concern is the situation does not escalate to a nuclear war. If I had a choice between Russia winning this conflict (which is inevitable anyway) or dying in a nuclear war I would chose the former - Ukraine is nothing to do with me personally, neither is Russia.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 30, 2024 7:23:48 GMT
Yeh, it's going swimmingly for them. Two and a half years into an invasion that Putin expected to last ten days... You keep talking about Ukrainian deaths - yet Russian losses are considerably higher. Recent credible estimates are around 12k Ukrainian civilian dead and 70k forces, against 125k Russian forces, are they not? That's a lot of blood on the hands of just one man, the only man whose bright idea this whole thing was. VVP. I dont know where you got these figures from (probably the BBC). If you think Ukraine has just lost 70k I have a bridge in London I can sell you. Some estimates is that they are currently losing 2000 a day - although this might include those surrendering to the Russians. I do not think the invasion of Ukraine is a good thing, I am against the Russian invasion of Ukraine and I am against the things that caused the Russians to invade. But from a purely personal perspective my main concern is the situation does not escalate to a nuclear war. If I had a choice between Russia winning this conflict (which is inevitable anyway) or dying in a nuclear war I would chose the former - Ukraine is nothing to do with me personally, neither is Russia. No, it's the rough mean of various credible international sources. So what's your source for figures? Given that almost every source you post is Russian government propaganda, I think we can take a guess. You think the choice is binary? Give Putin what he wants, or be nuked by Putin? You can't see a minor issue in appeasement of a megalomaniacal psychopathic bully like that?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 30, 2024 8:45:39 GMT
I dont know where you got these figures from (probably the BBC). If you think Ukraine has just lost 70k I have a bridge in London I can sell you. Some estimates is that they are currently losing 2000 a day - although this might include those surrendering to the Russians. I do not think the invasion of Ukraine is a good thing, I am against the Russian invasion of Ukraine and I am against the things that caused the Russians to invade. But from a purely personal perspective my main concern is the situation does not escalate to a nuclear war. If I had a choice between Russia winning this conflict (which is inevitable anyway) or dying in a nuclear war I would chose the former - Ukraine is nothing to do with me personally, neither is Russia. No, it's the rough mean of various credible international sources. So what's your source for figures? Given that almost every source you post is Russian government propaganda, I think we can take a guess. You think the choice is binary? Give Putin what he wants, or be nuked by Putin? You can't see a minor issue in appeasement of a megalomaniacal psychopathic bully like that? I suggest you look up Russia Federations Nuclear Policy, and no I would not totally rule out that Russia could use Nuclear weapons if their country was threatened with destruction. Since the Russians seem to believe this arming of Ukraine and the massive wave of sanctions was a Neo-Con plan to do a "Yugoslavia" on the Russian Federation I would say there is a very real risk of conflict escalation. Thankfully like most Neo-Con "Wile E Coyote" style plans it has not worked and has backfired leading to the probable end of NATO and the Petro-Dollar.
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k6
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Post by k6 on Jul 30, 2024 8:46:14 GMT
In theory Russia and Iran would be on one side but I haven't seen much coming out of the Russian side on the middle east - perhaps they would support Iran with arms but not sure they would spill blood over it ? Meanwhile, if Ukraine/west manages to destroy say the Kirsch bridge with the help of UK special forces how would Russia respond? It is very likely that in a major conflict between Israel and Iran that the US will get drawn in. If the US is involved in attacking Iran this could bring in Russia and China - both of whom have already been supplying Iran with advanced military technology. Even if the US stays out of it is possible Israel uses a nuke if the situation starts to go extremely badly for them. Hezbollah has 200,000 missiles and seem to be pretty confident they can cause serious damage to Israel. As for the situation in Ukraine it would be a lot more serious if Russia was not winning the war. If there was a risk that Russia could lose this war then yes it would worry me a lot more. As for Ukraine destroying the Kirsch bridge with the help of the UK I am not sure that would be possible, you would have to probably bomb it which neither Ukraine or the UK (or the US for that matter) is in a position to do. Israel is a nuclear power and is facing possible destruction in a war with Iran and its proxies (and possibly other actors in the region). Look who is back with its scaremongering. russia is not winning. . . where have you been ? , hiding in Kiev ? Ukraine could destroy the Kirsch bridge on its own. No need for help from anyone And now you are adding Israel into your propaganda thoughts, and its destruction ? why ? cos its not on russia side ? so, it will be wiped out ? . . . have some decency
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 30, 2024 8:58:05 GMT
It is very likely that in a major conflict between Israel and Iran that the US will get drawn in. If the US is involved in attacking Iran this could bring in Russia and China - both of whom have already been supplying Iran with advanced military technology. Even if the US stays out of it is possible Israel uses a nuke if the situation starts to go extremely badly for them. Hezbollah has 200,000 missiles and seem to be pretty confident they can cause serious damage to Israel. As for the situation in Ukraine it would be a lot more serious if Russia was not winning the war. If there was a risk that Russia could lose this war then yes it would worry me a lot more. As for Ukraine destroying the Kirsch bridge with the help of the UK I am not sure that would be possible, you would have to probably bomb it which neither Ukraine or the UK (or the US for that matter) is in a position to do. Israel is a nuclear power and is facing possible destruction in a war with Iran and its proxies (and possibly other actors in the region). Look who is back with its scaremongering. russia is not winning. . . where have you been ? , hiding in Kiev ? Ukraine could destroy the Kirsch bridge on its own. No need for help from anyone And now you are adding Israel into your propaganda thoughts, and its destruction ? why ? cos its not on russia side ? so, it will be wiped out ? . . . have some decency I am not talking about the destruction of Israel - infact it would be impossible to destroy Israel without causing the Apocalypse given their nuclear arsenal. I am talking about the extreme levels of danger in the current situation in the Middle East, which is far more serious than the situation in Ukraine in my opinion.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 30, 2024 9:24:06 GMT
...a Neo-Con plan to do a "Yugoslavia" on the Russian Federation What does that even mean?
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jul 30, 2024 9:31:57 GMT
...a Neo-Con plan to do a "Yugoslavia" on the Russian Federation What does that even mean? Probably that the number of teams in the Euros will need to be increased again?
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markyg61
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Post by markyg61 on Jul 30, 2024 10:23:17 GMT
Why do people think russia are entitled to ignore all international rules regarding a states sovreignty by way of a 2 week SMO to de-nazify and de-militarize Ukraine that was NO threat to russia (other than economically with all their untapped gas fields) and then think Ukraine should just rollover and give up ?
I'm sorry but russia doesn't deserve to exist after this is all over. They have broken every international law and ripped up every agreement, committed war crimes and continue todo so. To all those wanting appeasement just for a happy life are deluded. Appeasement to russia will not cut it ! They have openly stated their thoughts. ie breakup of USSR was a tragedy and all the hawks saying they will continue onto the Atlantic. Who's next, Georgia, Moldova, Baltic states ? russia will continue to test the West, pushing here, prodding there, trying to break the rules based order to achieve their desired outcome. This cannot be allowed to succeed and I for one want to see more help going to Ukraine.
I also want to see the ban on targetting troop/equipment buildups in russia lifted.
I want to see F16's patrolling Ukraine skies and I want to see the Kursch bridge go down. I want to see modern armourments going into Ukraine, not the cast-offs/ hand me downs, the stuff that was going to be de-commisioned anyway.
I want to see Putin humilated and de-throned !
with russian demographics the way they are, a dwindling pool of young cannon fodder, 2022 was always going to be their last opportunity to restore the USSR. Dont belive all that bull about Ukraine were going to attack russia, russians were being oppressed, thats just propaganda for the russian people to keep them onside. Putin had to do it now, or never.
Couldn't keep his man into Ukraines Presidency, so had a hissy. Flight MH17 !
Little green men occupy Crimea...
russian activists move into the Donbass to stir and create alternative narrative (oh, we want to be russian, we're being oppressed). Fine, move to russia !
"We retreated from Kyiv as a goodwill gesture" - No, you got absolutely routed
I could go on.
Will russsia go nuclear ? Who knows, I doubt it but I dont think we can afford to just rollover and accept Putins distorted future vision. We have to call his bluff and see this through to a succesfull end that sees Ukraine prevail as a sovereign state, both in the EU and NATO.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 30, 2024 10:23:37 GMT
What does that even mean? Probably that the number of teams in the Euros will need to be increased again? Well, given Ukraine has been a sovereign nation for a third of a century, since the breakup of the USSR...
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jul 30, 2024 10:51:28 GMT
This cannot be allowed to succeed and I for one want to see more help going to Ukraine.
I also want to see the ban on targetting troop/equipment buildups in russia lifted.
I want to see F16's patrolling Ukraine skies and I want to see the Kursch bridge go down. I want to see modern armourments going into Ukraine, not the cast-offs/ hand me downs, the stuff that was going to be de-commisioned anyway.
I want to see Putin humilated and de-throned !
Whether you would feel this way if you actually had to go to the front line and fight the Russians to achieve any of this is another matter all together....
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 30, 2024 11:03:05 GMT
This cannot be allowed to succeed and I for one want to see more help going to Ukraine.
I also want to see the ban on targetting troop/equipment buildups in russia lifted.
I want to see F16's patrolling Ukraine skies and I want to see the Kursch bridge go down. I want to see modern armourments going into Ukraine, not the cast-offs/ hand me downs, the stuff that was going to be de-commisioned anyway.
I want to see Putin humilated and de-throned ! Whether you would feel this way if you actually had to go to the front line and fight the Russians to achieve any of this is another matter all together.... How about if you had to go to the front line and fight FOR the Russians?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jul 30, 2024 12:04:32 GMT
Countries like Russia, Iran and Turkey have one thing in common. Their leaders are full of bellicose rhetoric, predominantly aimed at the domestic market. I've lost count of how many threats have come out of Russia to nuke somebody, and I recall Iran threatening major conflict if Israel invaded Gazza.
What we have seen over the last 9 months is that other Arab countries have little appetite for getting directly involved. Look at the consequences of a major escalation from Iran's point of view:
- Reward - Israel gets a bloody nose
- Risk - major damage to your infrastructure, possibly getting nuked.
The Houthi rebels and Hamas don't have the fire power to worry Israel, so the only people who could up the ante are Hezbollah, and I'm not certain they fancy having half their empire wiped out in a mess escalation.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 30, 2024 13:34:20 GMT
Countries like Russia, Iran and Turkey have one thing in common. Their leaders are full of bellicose rhetoric, predominantly aimed at the domestic market. Sounds familiar more locally over recent years. Populism. "We're the best country in the world, and it's only THEM holding us back! Trust me, and we'll stand on our own two feet again!"
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