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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 14, 2024 10:48:09 GMT
I read this was a gas metering station, blow up the metering equipment only and free gas for the eu!!!😜. In one of the more bizarre aspects of the war, Ukr is still being paid transit fees by Russia for gas that comes across Ukr. It comes via this station. IIRC it is worth about $2bn (or Euro 2Bn or similar) a year to Ukr.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Aug 14, 2024 11:03:00 GMT
I read somewhere this agreement is about to end in 2024. So what next for both?
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 14, 2024 11:08:11 GMT
I read somewhere this agreement is about to end in 2024. So what next for both? You're right now I remember it. Rus said they weren't going to extend the deal.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 14, 2024 11:09:33 GMT
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 14, 2024 13:03:40 GMT
If in doubt dig ... Russians reportedly constructing trench lines to block the Ukr attack ... 45km back! Ukr offensive renewed after brief consolidation pause, expanding the base of salient to east & west but also pushing West along the road towards Rylsk, Korenevo seems initial object ... failure of Chechen troops to stabilise front (so that's the usual Russian fire brigade unsuccessful) Two Ukr brigades reported withdrawn from salient due to heavy losses (unconfirmed) Russians renewed attacks on Kharkiv front to draw forces off
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 14, 2024 14:00:09 GMT
If in doubt dig ... Russians reportedly constructing trench lines to block the Ukr attack ... 45km back! Ukr offensive renewed after brief consolidation pause, expanding the base of salient to east & west but also pushing West along the road towards Rylsk, Korenevo seems initial object ... failure of Chechen troops to stabilise front (so that's the usual Russian fire brigade unsuccessful) Two Ukr brigades reported withdrawn from salient due to heavy losses (unconfirmed) Russians renewed attacks on Kharkiv front to draw forces off Source?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 14, 2024 15:57:10 GMT
So despite some of my more recent bellicose posts, I don't want WW3 and I don't want the UK to stick its neck further above the parapet than need be.tin has Putin has previously said the use of NATO weapons on Russian soil would be a red line. Did he really say this and when? Many so-called red lines have been crossed before but that doesn't mean we should relax. Nuking Ukraine or firing off conventual missiles into the UK or other NATO's states is binary. It happens or it doesn't happen. And how would anyone know how many straws would be needed to break Putin and hit back? Unlike many, I'd be interested to hear angrysaveruk view and also The Captain's - hopefully I won't pee anyone off too much by saying those two whilst taking almost the opposite view, are probably the most interesting in these parts. As an aside, does anyone here believe all the quotes that senior Ukr commanders say about not harming civs in Russia and how they intend to abide by all the conventions? (I imagine that would be everyone here 'cept Mr Saver). Its bullshit and they're almost certainly to be as vengeful as the Russians. Good on 'em. |
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 14, 2024 16:34:34 GMT
So despite some of my more recent bellicose posts, I don't want WW3 and I don't want the UK to stick its neck further above the parapet than need be.tin has Putin has previously said the use of NATO weapons on Russian soil would be a red line. Did he really say this and when? Many so-called red lines have been crossed before but that doesn't mean we should relax. Nuking Ukraine or firing off conventual missiles into the UK or other NATO's states is binary. It happens or it doesn't happen. And how would anyone know how many straws would be needed to break Putin and hit back? Unlike many, I'd be interested to hear angrysaveruk view and also The Captain's - hopefully I won't pee anyone off too much by saying those two whilst taking almost the opposite view, are probably the most interesting in these parts. As an aside, does anyone here believe all the quotes that senior Ukr commanders say about not harming civs in Russia and how they intend to abide by all the conventions? (I imagine that would be everyone here 'cept Mr Saver). Its bullshit and they're almost certainly to be as vengeful as the Russians. Good on 'em. On the second point first. Unlike you, "good on 'em" if they do is not a sentiment I would subscribe to. The horrors that the Russian army has inflicted on the Ukr civilian population are abhorrent. I don't think the sentiment of Ukr commanders is b/s as you put it. I suspect they both genuinely mean that is their desire, they are under orders for it to be so, and they are taking steps to try and ensure it. None of which has likely existed with the Russian forces. Do I believe that will be the actual outcome ? Who knows, but I think it has a much stronger chance than with the Russians. They are a relatively disciplined force on the whole (compared to the Russians) and their commanders almost certainly are taking steps to try and ensure it is so. The Ukr hierarchy and Ukraine has a vested interest in making sure it is so. If elements of the Ukr forces visit the horrors of e.g. Bucha on the territory they have occupied, then you'll find very quickly that western arms supply is going to become a lot less forthcoming even than it is now. It wouldn't take an awful lot for leadership in Germany/France/Sweden etc. to bow to the resultant public pressure.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Aug 14, 2024 16:59:15 GMT
I suspect the Ukrainian command chain knows damn well that the moral highground is much more easily lost than regained, and definitely their most valuable asset.
TBH, I think they're pushing that about as far as it'll go with the Kursk escapade. But I'm sure they know what they're doing, and I'm sure they're not looking to do an Aung San Suu Kyi.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Aug 14, 2024 17:22:14 GMT
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 14, 2024 17:36:28 GMT
You'll have to point me to where I said I thought Putin blew up his own pipeline. Especially as I never thought it very likely, and have stated so several times. And even if you have found such a post in the immediate aftermath of the event, I will have countered that view several times since. Perhaps even when you have previously made such a statement. Still, facts eh? who cares about them. Oh, and you're also quite a few hours late with the posting of the news. Its no longer breaking. link Still, that was a link to the MSM and who ever believes them right ?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 14, 2024 19:00:12 GMT
If in doubt dig ... Russians reportedly constructing trench lines to block the Ukr attack ... 45km back! Ukr offensive renewed after brief consolidation pause, expanding the base of salient to east & west but also pushing West along the road towards Rylsk, Korenevo seems initial object ... failure of Chechen troops to stabilise front (so that's the usual Russian fire brigade unsuccessful) Two Ukr brigades reported withdrawn from salient due to heavy losses (unconfirmed) Russians renewed attacks on Kharkiv front to draw forces off Source? Various of the geo-mappers/OSINT monitoring. AMK Mapping
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Aug 14, 2024 19:29:18 GMT
Various of the geo-mappers/OSINT monitoring. AMK Mapping I have to confess that is much better than 'a bloke in the pub'. On the other hand I would know what 'a bloke in the pub' actually related too......
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 14, 2024 22:55:12 GMT
Various of the geo-mappers/OSINT monitoring. AMK Mapping I have to confess that is much better than 'a bloke in the pub'. On the other hand I would know what 'a bloke in the pub' actually related too...... Did someone call? Cheers! Regarding the catastrophic consequences threatened by Putin, it has long been thought to mean the use of tactical nuclear weapons. If this was to occur, NATO and the US have long said there would be drastic consequences for Russia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_risk_during_the_Russian_invasion_of_UkraineThere is no knowing how Putins mind works but there is one factor which I don't think is discussed in this article and that is the attitude if the Chinese to a first use of nukes. If Russia did such a thing it would reek of weakness and failure. It would push NATO over its red lines. It would nullify US Republican support for Russia. With Russias army hollowed out and in disarray and a reflexive support for nuked Ukraine there would be a huge likely downside for Russia in payment for a larger than usual hole in the ground.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 15, 2024 12:29:42 GMT
I suspect the Ukrainian command chain knows damn well that the moral highground is much more easily lost than regained, and definitely their most valuable asset.TBH, I think they're pushing that about as far as it'll go with the Kursk escapade. But I'm sure they know what they're doing, and I'm sure they're not looking to do an Aung San Suu Kyi. Its kind of funny and sad how you are sucked into the propaganda so easily. Sad that someone apparently bright doesn't see the bigger picture. They are essentially the same people culturally. The same beliefs and suspicions. The same wants and the same sense of justice. Think Catholics and Protestants but where both sides share the same religion.
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