michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 15, 2024 12:50:27 GMT
Russian Media has definitely picked up on this story. Not good optics for NATO to be informed in advance as presumably suspicion will be they were involved in the planning. www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-kursk-invasion-putin-russia-war-zelensky-podolyak-b2596251.html#comments-areaUkraine’s key Western allies, including Britain and the US, say they were not informed about the attack before it happened, but Mr Podolyak suggested this was not the case.
“There are certain things that have to be done with the element of surprise, and that have to happen on a local level,” he said. “But there were discussions between partner forces, just not on the public level.”
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Aug 15, 2024 13:16:49 GMT
I read somewhere unarmed soldiers “got caught“ drinking coffees by blue and yellow.
Another source said a commander said on national TV some “invaders” entering Kursk speak different lingos and there are many non-white soldiers who don't even “know “ their nationality, but most of them have been annihilated
😅 no idea how accurate they are.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 15, 2024 17:09:11 GMT
I read somewhere unarmed soldiers “got caught“ drinking coffees by blue and yellow. Another source said a commander said on national TV some “invaders” entering Kursk speak different lingos and there are many non-white soldiers who don't even “know “ their nationality, but most of them have been annihilated 😅 no idea how accurate they are. That will be the Chechens😉 Given the Russians managed to shoot up a load of their own trucks with gunships, it wouldn't surprise me if in the panic, a bunch of swarthy foreigner irregulars were assumed to be the enemy.
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 16, 2024 4:04:29 GMT
one potential "objective" which hasn't been specifically mentioned is/was simply a strong desire to change the political landscape ahead of a possible Trump presidency. If Ukr has demonstrated that it is not all one sided and they can change the 'facts on the ground' positively, it may be more difficult for the Orange Dumpster to cut off support and in effect impose on Ukr a ceasefire on Russian terms.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Aug 16, 2024 11:15:14 GMT
Personally I suspect if/when this Kursk invasion of Russia turns into a rout Zelenski will be replaced - which hopefully will lead to someone who wants to negotiate with the Russians taking control of the country. This blaming of a Ukrainian Diving instructor for the blowing up of Nord Stream suggests to me the fantasists in the US are moving to do a regime change operation in Ukraine - when they start coming up with nonsense like this you know something is going to happen.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 16, 2024 11:35:25 GMT
Personally I suspect if/when this Kursk invasion of Russia turns into a rout Zelenski will be replaced - which hopefully will lead to someone who wants to negotiate with the Russians taking control of the country. This blaming of a Ukrainian Diving instructor for the blowing up of Nord Stream suggests to me the fantasists in the US are moving to do a regime change operation in Ukraine - when they start coming up with nonsense like this you know something is going to happen. Lets hope so and get it sorted. Other news I read reports of Lukashenko wanting the relevant sides to talk. Is he scared of Ukraine ending his dictatorship?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 16, 2024 13:54:34 GMT
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k6
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Post by k6 on Aug 16, 2024 14:23:48 GMT
Personally I suspect if/when this Kursk invasion of Russia turns into a rout Zelenski will be replaced - which hopefully will lead to someone who wants to negotiate with the Russians taking control of the country. This blaming of a Ukrainian Diving instructor for the blowing up of Nord Stream suggests to me the fantasists in the US are moving to do a regime change operation in Ukraine - when they start coming up with nonsense like this you know something is going to happen. Zelenski must be doing a good job since you so much would like to see him being replaced. There should not be any negotiation with russia till they on Ukraine soil. Period.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 17, 2024 10:27:51 GMT
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Post by bracknellboy on Aug 17, 2024 10:54:01 GMT
There could be a couple of reasons, but one of which I think is likely the other unlikely. Firstly the one that is unlikely. If StormShadow had US components and/or "contents" that was under ITAR then their usage could be subject to some form of US restrictions/approval. That might even be (but less likely) when used by UK or Fr themselves. But a little more likely where they had been transferred to a 3rd party. FWIW I think this is unlikely the reason. Why? Because SS is an MBDA weapon system developed for and in use with UK and France, and while the UK might be comfortable with some restrictions I think it is very unlikely the French would have allowed themselves to be hamstrung by the US in that way. The far more likely reason would be that the western parties / NATO member countries have reached a general consensus to be get mutual agreement / consent, or at least consent from the US, for use of weapons for strikes into Russia. Because of NATO mutual defence commitments. E.g. if Poland was to chuck missiles/shells at a target inside Russia - regardless of whether it was using US, British, French or entirely indigenous weapons - it would seem to be a bit of a stretch for it then to invoke NATO Article 5 when Russia retaliated. So this is just an extrapolation from that more extreme example. The shorter answer is: "Yes"
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Post by crabbyoldgit on Aug 17, 2024 13:07:33 GMT
One of those internet stories to be taken with pinch of salt, but who knows war is a big confused mess. So the Russians wanted to divert Ukrainian troops from the Donbas area and as a ruse spread the idea of a new front somewhere near Sumy. The Ukrainians fell for it and diverted reserves and a couple of good divisions to counter the coming invasion. Of course once there scouts discovered conscripts and a few border guards, no quality massed troops, Ukrainians thought sod it were here now ready for a fight, logistics sufficient for an incursion and there is not much stop us, of we go. Then it just kind of grew.. So not so much genius cunning plan as successful faint gone wrong taken advantage of.
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 17, 2024 14:49:16 GMT
Personally I suspect if/when this Kursk invasion of Russia turns into a rout Zelenski will be replaced - which hopefully will lead to someone who wants to negotiate with the Russians taking control of the country. Would you also agree to express this as "..... Kursk invasion of Russia turns into a rout Putin will be replaced - which hopefully will lead to someone who wants to negotiate with the Ukrainians taking control of the country" ?Or do you not hope that Putin is replaced by someone more peace-minded?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 17, 2024 16:04:45 GMT
Personally I suspect if/when this Kursk invasion of Russia turns into a rout Zelenski will be replaced - which hopefully will lead to someone who wants to negotiate with the Russians taking control of the country. Would you also agree to express this as "..... Kursk invasion of Russia turns into a rout Putin will be replaced - which hopefully will lead to someone who wants to negotiate with the Ukrainians taking control of the country" ?Or do you not hope that Putin is replaced by someone more peace-minded? Seems to me there is a possibility of that happening (a rout) is there not? If they don't dig in soon will they not be highly vulnerable (the Ukr offensive troops that is) ? And if they do dig in, does Russia not just pour in vast resources of people and ammunition to "solve" the problem ? Not resources from existing front lines but news ones as they always have done as history has shown.
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Post by captainconfident on Aug 17, 2024 16:23:46 GMT
Would you also agree to express this as "..... Kursk invasion of Russia turns into a rout Putin will be replaced - which hopefully will lead to someone who wants to negotiate with the Ukrainians taking control of the country" ?Or do you not hope that Putin is replaced by someone more peace-minded? Seems to me there is a possibility of that happening (a rout) is there not? If they don't dig in soon will they not be highly vulnerable (the Ukr offensive troops that is) ? And if they do dig in, does Russia not just pour in vast resources of people and ammunition to "solve" the problem ? Not resources from existing front lines but news ones as they always have done as history has shown. Nobody knows the answer to that at the moment. But the signs that Russia is at the bottom of the barrel are now evident. Scrapheap Challenge is nearly over. Putting yourself at the table with the Ukrainian planners, and I don't think the shape of the course of the Seym River has escaped their notice as far as defensible boundaries are concerned. www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/picturedisplay.asp?linkpath=pic/S/E/Seim%20River_Map.jpg&page=pages/S/E/SeimRiver.htm&id=13590&pid=9696&tyt=Seim%20River&key=Seim+River%2C+%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B9%D0%BC%3BThe bit to the west of the incursion that I earlier suggested Ukraine would attack seems likely to fall them without a fight. Edit: This person agrees
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Aug 17, 2024 17:26:54 GMT
Seems to me there is a possibility of that happening (a rout) is there not? If they don't dig in soon will they not be highly vulnerable (the Ukr offensive troops that is) ? And if they do dig in, does Russia not just pour in vast resources of people and ammunition to "solve" the problem ? Not resources from existing front lines but news ones as they always have done as history has shown. Nobody knows the answer to that at the moment. But the signs that Russia is at the bottom of the barrel are now evident. Scrapheap Challenge is nearly over. Putting yourself at the table with the Ukrainian planners, and I don't think the shape of the course of the Seym River has escaped their notice as far as defensible boundaries are concerned. www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/picturedisplay.asp?linkpath=pic/S/E/Seim%20River_Map.jpg&page=pages/S/E/SeimRiver.htm&id=13590&pid=9696&tyt=Seim%20River&key=Seim+River%2C+%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B9%D0%BC%3BThe bit to the west of the incursion that I earlier suggested Ukraine would attack seems likely to fall them without a fight. one thing the last 2 years has taught us is that Russia's top soldiers are (a bit like Sadam Hussein's republican guard) and the conscripts are even worse. Any backup sent to the region would doubtless be cannon fodder the moment they put their heads above the parapets.
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