angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Sept 21, 2024 20:29:26 GMT
There are other factors in Ukraine beside the NATO/US involvement factor - such as the perception by Russia that Russians within Ukraine are being persecuted. I am pretty confident in saying that if you took US Neo-Con arming of Ukraine and the internal conflict involving Russians within Ukraine (which the Russians seem to believe the US have also been involved in) out of the equation this invasion would not have happened. Infact these two points were the main points of the Istanbul peace deal to end the conflict in 2022 - which the Zelensky government seemed to be very happy about until Boris the Clown showed up. Russians have talked about the Istanbul Agreement as still being the basis of a peace treaty, however it now involves the annexation of large parts of Eastern Ukraine into the Russian Federation. If I was Finnish I would have preferred it if my country had stayed out of NATO and remained neutral. Their neutral peace treaty with Russia benefitted them economically and why the hell would Russia want to invade Finland anyhow*. Infact Finland also faced a similar situation with the Russians after they lost the Winter War in 1940 and by remaining neutral and giving territory to the Russians they avoided the destruction of their country. * - unless they posed a threat to Russia. If you look at a map of the world you will probably notice Russia already has enough territory to worry about. probably the same question the Finns were asking themselves before 30/11/39. Just a sneaking suspicion that is why they got a touch nervy when Russia decided to walk into Ukr. You know, the Ukr that was such a huge military threat to Russia that just about everyone thought a Russian puppet would be installed in Kyiv within 3-7 days. Russia today is nothing like the Soviet Union of WW2, any more than Germany today is anything like Nazi Germany in WW2. The reason Finland's political class are so keen on joining NATO is probably to do with the Globalist Atlantic leanings of their political class like Sanna Marin - who makes Starmer look like a nationalist.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 21, 2024 21:31:03 GMT
probably the same question the Finns were asking themselves before 30/11/39. Just a sneaking suspicion that is why they got a touch nervy when Russia decided to walk into Ukr. You know, the Ukr that was such a huge military threat to Russia that just about everyone thought a Russian puppet would be installed in Kyiv within 3-7 days. Russia today is nothing like the Soviet Union of WW2, any more than Germany today is anything like Nazi Germany in WW2. The reason Finland's political class are so keen on joining NATO is probably to do with the Globalist Atlantic leanings of their political class like Sanna Marin - who makes Starmer look like a nationalist. Apart from using WWII weapons you mean
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Post by Ace on Sept 21, 2024 22:31:51 GMT
probably the same question the Finns were asking themselves before 30/11/39. Just a sneaking suspicion that is why they got a touch nervy when Russia decided to walk into Ukr. You know, the Ukr that was such a huge military threat to Russia that just about everyone thought a Russian puppet would be installed in Kyiv within 3-7 days. Russia today is nothing like the Soviet Union of WW2, any more than Germany today is anything like Nazi Germany in WW2. The reason Finland's political class are so keen on joining NATO is probably to do with the Globalist Atlantic leanings of their political class like Sanna Marin - who makes Starmer look like a nationalist. So, you're happy to swallow Putin's excuses about being worried by a defensive organisation on his borders, despite his misguided actions resulting in a doubling of those borders, but your not prepared to believe that the Finns are genuinely concerned enough about the murderous tyrant on their doorstep, who has invaded his other neighbours, to seek to protect themselves. Instead, it's all part of a wild conspiracy! Whatever is a "Globalistic Atlantic leaning", surely it can't be both.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Sept 22, 2024 6:58:41 GMT
Russia today is nothing like the Soviet Union of WW2, any more than Germany today is anything like Nazi Germany in WW2. The reason Finland's political class are so keen on joining NATO is probably to do with the Globalist Atlantic leanings of their political class like Sanna Marin - who makes Starmer look like a nationalist. So, you're happy to swallow Putin's excuses about being worried by a defensive organisation on his borders, despite his misguided actions resulting in a doubling of those borders, but your not prepared to believe that the Finns are genuinely concerned enough about the murderous tyrant on their doorstep, who has invaded his other neighbours, to seek to protect themselves. Instead, it's all part of a wild conspiracy! Whatever is a "Globalistic Atlantic leaning", surely it can't be both. NATO is basically a military alliance controlled by the US and it would be pretty hard to argue that US foreign policy is not aggressive and militaristic. For this reason a number of countries view NATO as a potential threat including Russia. Personally I have my doubts what would actually happen if one of the smaller NATO members was attacked by a Super power like Russia - whether the US would risk being annihilated. At the end of the day people act out of self interest and it is not in the interest of US Citizens to be vaporized because Putin decides he has had enough of the ridiculous threats from Kaja Kallas. For these reasons I said that if I lived in Finland I would prefer my country kept it neutral stance with Russia - I think it is extremely unlikely modern day Russia will attack Finland unless threatened by them. I am not a fan of Putin by any measure but at the same time I do not buy into this Russia = Bad, US/NATO = Good line that you seem to have swallowed - the world is a bit more complex. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanticism
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k6
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Post by k6 on Sept 22, 2024 20:49:35 GMT
So, you're happy to swallow Putin's excuses about being worried by a defensive organisation on his borders, despite his misguided actions resulting in a doubling of those borders, but your not prepared to believe that the Finns are genuinely concerned enough about the murderous tyrant on their doorstep, who has invaded his other neighbours, to seek to protect themselves. Instead, it's all part of a wild conspiracy! Whatever is a "Globalistic Atlantic leaning", surely it can't be both. NATO is basically a military alliance controlled by the US and it would be pretty hard to argue that US foreign policy is not aggressive and militaristic. For this reason a number of countries view NATO as a potential threat including Russia. Personally I have my doubts what would actually happen if one of the smaller NATO members was attacked by a Super power like Russia - whether the US would risk being annihilated. At the end of the day people act out of self interest and it is not in the interest of US Citizens to be vaporized because Putin decides he has had enough of the ridiculous threats from Kaja Kallas. For these reasons I said that if I lived in Finland I would prefer my country kept it neutral stance with Russia - I think it is extremely unlikely modern day Russia will attack Finland unless threatened by them. I am not a fan of Putin by any measure but at the same time I do not buy into this Russia = Bad, US/NATO = Good line that you seem to have swallowed - the world is a bit more complex. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanticismwhat is the robles payout for using word surper power ? russia is NOT a super power, it never was. It lied as is lying now US would risk being annihilated - trolling I am not a fan of Putin by any measure - trying to soften on your vast and obvious pro russia image
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 23, 2024 10:19:47 GMT
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 23, 2024 10:26:31 GMT
Indeed I believe this missile test was intended to cow the West into respecting Russias immense power but the whole thing has gone spectacularly tits up. I wonder if Michaelc could tell us if RT or Pravda has been fulsome in telling what heppened to the Russian public? When our American missile went plop in the sea, we were fully informed even though it was embarrassing. Free societies, eh? Just spotted the ISW's headline about this in their daily update. I really liked the dry tone. Satellite imagery of damage at the Plesetsk Cosmodrome in Arkhangelsk Oblast captured on September 21 suggests that the Russian military recently conducted an unsuccessful RS-28 "Sarmat" nuclear-capable intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) test.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 23, 2024 20:48:22 GMT
Just watching the first episode of Yes Prime Minister, and Hacker is geting advice from a military expert about Russia and our nuclear deterrent. The expert says there's no need to worry about being nuked by Russia, if they want to expand their empire they will use salami slicing tactics (just do it one piece at a time). A pretty good guess for 1986.
Speaking of 1986, I've recently been watching the 5 part series about the Chernobyl disaster on Sky. Interesting that during one of his meetings Gorbachev is moaning about all the appologising he is having to do to his friends and enemies. His assessment of the impact of the crisis on the Soviet Union is summed up when he says 'our power comes from the perception of our power'. Nearly 30 years ago, but still very relevant today.
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 23, 2024 21:06:59 GMT
Just watching the first episode of Yes Prime Minister, and Hacker is geting advice from a military expert about Russia and our nuclear deterrent. The expert says there's no need to worry about being nuked by Russia, if they want to expand their empire they will use salami slicing tactics (just do it one piece at a time). A pretty good guess for 1986.
Speaking of 1986, I've recently been watching the 5 part series about the Chernobyl disaster on Sky. Interesting that during one of his meetings Gorbachev is moaning about all the appologising he is having to do to his friends and enemies. His assessment of the impact of the crisis on the Soviet Union is summed up when he says 'our power comes from the perception of our power'. Nearly 30 years ago, but still very relevant today.
is that the TV drama ? I watched it on Amazon Prime a few months back. It is very good. Many years later, Gorbachev said that Chernobyl was more of a cause of the break up of the Soviet Union than perestroika was.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 25, 2024 19:30:00 GMT
angrysaveruk is this guy the Head of the deep state UK branch? 
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Sept 26, 2024 7:10:08 GMT
Dont know if he is head of the Deep State. I know Starmer is a Nit Wit though.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 26, 2024 11:21:35 GMT
Dont know if he is head of the Deep State. I know Starmer is a Nit Wit though. Since at least Theresa May through BJ and the other one, he's always in the shadows of the PM. Senior civil servant of some kind but the fellow is always there.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Sept 26, 2024 12:01:52 GMT
Dont know if he is head of the Deep State. I know Starmer is a Nit Wit though. Since at least Theresa May through BJ and the other one, he's always in the shadows of the PM. Senior civil servant of some kind but the fellow is always there. Sir Tim Barrow?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Sept 26, 2024 12:09:26 GMT
Since at least Theresa May through BJ and the other one, he's always in the shadows of the PM. Senior civil servant of some kind but the fellow is always there. Sir Tim Barrow?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 26, 2024 12:20:55 GMT
Since at least Theresa May through BJ and the other one, he's always in the shadows of the PM. Senior civil servant of some kind but the fellow is always there. Sir Tim Barrow? That's the fellow. Thanks.
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