michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 21, 2024 18:16:17 GMT
You wouldn't start with a nuclear weapon for goodness sake. True... but I wouldn't have started by invading next-door, then blaming anybody and everybody else. So everything past there is into "Putin's definitely not making the same choices as me" territory. Regarding confrontation with the west, Putin has been pretty restrained. Attacking a western power with any kind of weapon would be quite a leap in escalatory terms. It would almost certainly be a conventional attack of the kind I mentioned. What would our response be and what should it be to that ?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 21, 2024 18:24:43 GMT
True... but I wouldn't have started by invading next-door, then blaming anybody and everybody else. So everything past there is into "Putin's definitely not making the same choices as me" territory. Regarding confrontation with the west, Putin has been pretty restrained. Mmmm... We have different definitions of that word, clearly. Y'see, my definition doesn't include spending years throwing my entire military at another country because they dared to have different visions of the future to me.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 21, 2024 18:28:09 GMT
True... but I wouldn't have started by invading next-door, then blaming anybody and everybody else. So everything past there is into "Putin's definitely not making the same choices as me" territory. UK was involved in the illegal invasion of Libya and Iraq. So what if Russia gave Iraq an ICBM and helped them fire it at London blowing up a historical military building? Except they weren't "illegal". Iraq - UNSC Resolution 1441 Libya - UNSC Resolution 1973 When it comes to Ukraine, there would have been UN resolutions against Russia, but for the minor detail of Russia having a veto.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Nov 21, 2024 18:32:36 GMT
I have just seen footage that confirms it on Telegram that this is what the Storm Shadows Hit: maps.app.goo.gl/LGCqsGmpebrT7LaM8I am not posting the telegram link since it is from a Russian Ultra Nationalist source. |
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 21, 2024 18:50:10 GMT
Regarding confrontation with the west, Putin has been pretty restrained. Mmmm... We have different definitions of that word, clearly. Y'see, my definition doesn't include spending years throwing my entire military at another country because they dared to have different visions of the future to me. You're changing the subject. I clearly asked you what our response should be if Russia attacks one of our military installations using conventional weapons on mainland UK ? You first said it's unlikely and that it would be Germany first. Then you said no the first move against a western target would be to drop a nuke on NYC. Are you losing your mind? My scenario is looking increasingly likely and is definitely the most likely of all the possible "strike outside the Ukraine" first type of target. You can't even think about how we would respond or should respond in such a scenario? Why not ?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 21, 2024 18:52:35 GMT
I have just seen footage that confirms it on Telegram that this is what the Storm Shadows Hit: maps.app.goo.gl/LGCqsGmpebrT7LaM8I am not posting the telegram link since it is from a Russian Ultra Nationalist source. Looks lovely. Btw, I think you have your answer about any top generals being there. Putin said it was "just" guards there. So whether there were or were not, Putin is not hamming that up which is good. www.rt.com/russia/607998-putin-long-range-attack/
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Nov 21, 2024 19:07:29 GMT
I have just seen footage that confirms it on Telegram that this is what the Storm Shadows Hit: maps.app.goo.gl/LGCqsGmpebrT7LaM8I am not posting the telegram link since it is from a Russian Ultra Nationalist source. Looks lovely. Btw, I think you have your answer about any top generals being there. Putin said it was "just" guards there. So whether there were or were not, Putin is not hamming that up which is good. www.rt.com/russia/607998-putin-long-range-attack/Well I have studied the footage on telegram some more and it seems the main building was not hit. The storm shadows seemed to land on these buildings on the grounds of the main building:   Still if Russians have been killed by UK missiles on Russian soil I think there will be some kind of retaliation. Some poor bastards are going to have to pay for Starmer's idiocy at some point. 
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 21, 2024 19:13:32 GMT
You first said it's unlikely I did. I said that's what Russia have been saying - Sergei Markov, on R4 on Monday. I said it was as likely as firing missiles at the UK - ie vanishingly unlikely. Can you read? On a likelihood scale of 0 to 100, with 100 as a dead cert and 0 being me replacing Putin as president of Russia, it might have just gone from 1 to 2. BTW, if we're getting uppity about questions seemingly unanswered, may I cordially remind you... p2pindependentforum.com/post/502838
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Nov 21, 2024 19:48:05 GMT
UK was involved in the illegal invasion of Libya and Iraq. So what if Russia gave Iraq an ICBM and helped them fire it at London blowing up a historical military building? Except they weren't "illegal". Iraq - UNSC Resolution 1441 Libya - UNSC Resolution 1973 When it comes to Ukraine, there would have been UN resolutions against Russia, but for the minor detail of Russia having a veto. Well for a start the invasion of Iraq was based on a pack of lies about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 21, 2024 20:17:33 GMT
You first said it's unlikely I did. I said that's what Russia have been saying - Sergei Markov, on R4 on Monday. I said it was as likely as firing missiles at the UK - ie vanishingly unlikely. Can you read? On a likelihood scale of 0 to 100, with 100 as a dead cert and 0 being me replacing Putin as president of Russia, it might have just gone from 1 to 2. BTW, if we're getting uppity about questions seemingly unanswered, may I cordially remind you... p2pindependentforum.com/post/502838There you go - answered. Why do you think it is vanishingly small such a missile attack? If pushed I'd put it at 20% - i.e. quite possible. In fact the answer the questions (still not answered) might inform the likelihood of it taking place. Can I infer from you, that you would advocate a devastating strike conducted by several NATO nations, killing at least hundreds if not thousands in response? Or would you suggest a nuclear response killing 100,000s ? Or would you take a more measured approach and hit Russia back with something similar?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 21, 2024 20:34:03 GMT
So now pretty clear the intermediate IBCM _was_ the Russian response.
Now over to Zelensky and Biden as to whether they want to keep lobbing atacms and SS into Russia. I assume each attack would provoke an escalation.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 21, 2024 20:48:10 GMT
True... but I wouldn't have started by invading next-door, then blaming anybody and everybody else. So everything past there is into "Putin's definitely not making the same choices as me" territory. Regarding confrontation with the west, Putin has been pretty restrained. Attacking a western power with any kind of weapon would be quite a leap in escalatory terms. It would almost certainly be a conventional attack of the kind I mentioned. What would our response be and what should it be to that ?I would think the question would be what would NATO's response be? And that is why it (probably) won't happen. The same if they targeted Poland or Germany.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 21, 2024 20:53:37 GMT
Except they weren't "illegal". Iraq - UNSC Resolution 1441 Libya - UNSC Resolution 1973 When it comes to Ukraine, there would have been UN resolutions against Russia, but for the minor detail of Russia having a veto. Well for a start the invasion of Iraq was based on a pack of lies about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction And so was Russias invasion of Ukraine
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Nov 21, 2024 20:57:01 GMT
So now pretty clear the intermediate IBCM _was_ the Russian response. Now over to Zelensky and Biden as to whether they want to keep lobbing atacms and SS into Russia. I assume each attack would provoke an escalation. Its not an ICBM, its an intermediate range missile like Cruise & Pershing, phased out under the INF treaty but now back on the board following Trumps abandonment of the treaty (on basis of Russian non-compliance)
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 21, 2024 21:05:39 GMT
So now pretty clear the intermediate IBCM _was_ the Russian response. ... No. It was confirmed that it wasn't.
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