adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 17, 2024 15:09:15 GMT
The result wasn't accepted. Had it been accepted like any other election, its likely the exit wouldn't have been so "hard" Woah up... The exit was ALWAYS going to be "hard", as soon as Theresa May put her red line about ECJ into her October 2016 conference speech. That made anything but "hard" quite simply impossible. www.ft.com/content/32cd1e87-c7d1-3026-86fc-bce5229711d1
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Feb 17, 2024 16:42:18 GMT
The result wasn't accepted. Had it been accepted like any other election, its likely the exit wouldn't have been so "hard" . Its very sad that the UK of all countries _nearly_ didn't accept the result of a vote. I wonder what the next issue will be where those more powerful than us decide to override the result? A general election result ? Would they have tried it if Corbyn had somehow won ? Should they have tried it ? What about Farage? If he was ever a serious contender, would he suddenly face a barrage of court cases to prevent him standing or worse to try to annul the result of a general election? Folk are too comfortable and have forgotten real hardship and war. Forgotten what democracy means. You win some and you [graciously] lose some. I can remember some of the local lefties after the 2019 election ( on which some of them had bet big on a labour win ) being outside weatherspoons on the Friday night chanting "not my government" and singing "oh Jeremy Corbyn" and generally moaning that Labour had been too right wing during and leading up to the election. Honestly right now as someone who has voted in every election since 1978, I really can't see who to vote for, Rishi is weak and the tories are tepid under him, Kier flip flops too much and as PM he needs to stick with policies, and I have to live with the mess Labour have made of the NHS and Education in Wales. Ed Davey, the only policy of the Lib Dems appears to be rejoin the EU. Greens just too wishy washy, and this is from someone who has solar panels and investments in windfarms. Reform seems to have conflicting policies Net Zero immigration, Net Zero NHS waiting lists, seem to go against each other. Plaid Cymru, the less said the better
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Feb 17, 2024 16:49:07 GMT
Conservatives usually win my ward. Tho' once in a blue moon Lib Dems can steal a march if the farmers are neglected.
I vote for the person at the bottom with a funny hat , because the others are all self seeking narcissists under the guise of sincere, caring , blah ,blah ,blah...
RIP Disraeli.
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Post by captainconfident on Feb 17, 2024 16:51:35 GMT
The result wasn't accepted. Had it been accepted like any other election, its likely the exit wouldn't have been so "hard" . Its very sad that the UK of all countries _nearly_ didn't accept the result of a vote. I wonder what the next issue will be where those more powerful than us decide to override the result? A general election result ? Would they have tried it if Corbyn had somehow won ? Should they have tried it ? What about Farage? If he was ever a serious contender, would he suddenly face a barrage of court cases to prevent him standing or worse to try to annul the result of a general election? Folk are too comfortable and have forgotten real hardship and war. Forgotten what democracy means. You win some and you [graciously] lose some. I can remember some of the local lefties after the 2019 election ( on which some of them had bet big on a labour win ) being outside weatherspoons on the Friday night chanting "not my government" and singing "oh Jeremy Corbyn" and generally moaning that Labour had been too right wing during and leading up to the election. Honestly right now as someone who has voted in every election since 1978, I really can't see who to vote for, Rishi is weak and the tories are tepid under him, Kier flip flops too much and as PM he needs to stick with policies, and I have to live with the mess Labour have made of the NHS and Education in Wales. Ed Davey, the only policy of the Lib Dems appears to be rejoin the EU. Greens just too wishy washy, and this is from someone who has solar panels and investments in windfarms. Reform seems to have conflicting policies Net Zero immigration, Net Zero NHS waiting lists, seem to go against each other. Plaid Cymru, the less said the better Vote for an independent, or stand yourself s an independent, or start your own party. I'm sure there are more people of your ilk.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 17, 2024 17:02:23 GMT
Honestly right now as someone who has voted in every election since 1978, I really can't see who to vote for Your vote counts for one thing only - YOUR MP. Which of those named individuals do you think is best placed to represent your area?
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 17, 2024 17:13:49 GMT
Honestly right now as someone who has voted in every election since 1978, I really can't see who to vote for Your vote counts for one thing only - YOUR MP. Which of those named individuals do you think is best placed to represent your area? except it doesn't - it also counts towards which party will form the government. which is why The Additional Member System, where you can vote for your local MP AND vote for a party (which then tops up MPs proportionally so that the government represents what people actually voted for) is preferable. See Scotland and Wales. You can then choose the best MP AND contribute to your choice of government. They are often NOT the same thing.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 17, 2024 17:22:20 GMT
The result wasn't accepted. Had it been accepted like any other election, its likely the exit wouldn't have been so "hard" Woah up... The exit was ALWAYS going to be "hard", as soon as Theresa May put her red line about ECJ into her October 2016 conference speech. That made anything but "hard" quite simply impossible. www.ft.com/content/32cd1e87-c7d1-3026-86fc-bce5229711d1Absolutely this. Theresa May had the opportunity to reflect a knife edge 51.8/48.2% split by getting a consensus around a soft Brexit with membership of SM and/or CU (acknowledging that these options were explicitly discussed during the campaign by Brexiteers). Instead she went all in on a hard Brexit immediately, and here we are.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 17, 2024 17:22:25 GMT
Your vote counts for one thing only - YOUR MP. Which of those named individuals do you think is best placed to represent your area? except it doesn't - it also counts towards which party will form the government. Only indirectly - the party with most MPs forms the government.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Feb 17, 2024 17:24:35 GMT
except it doesn't - it also counts towards which party will form the government. Only indirectly - the party with most MPs forms the government. which IMHO is a poor form of democracy, when there are very good systems that allow you to both choose your MP AND choose your government directly.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Feb 17, 2024 17:41:31 GMT
Absolutely this. Theresa May had the opportunity to reflect a knife edge 51.8/48.2% split by getting a consensus around a soft Brexit with membership of SM and/or CU (acknowledging that these options were explicitly discussed during the campaign by Brexiteers). Instead she went all in on a hard Brexit immediately, and here we are. May voted to Remain. When she revealed some detail as PM in her Florence speech in Sep 2016, she proposed the UK continue to pay into the EU and continue to allow immigration for a period of 2 years. Had the despicable elements of the population and in particular the ruling classes not tried to illegally annul the result risking public revolt on the streets and destruction of British democracy, May would likely have perused a soft Brexit. Instead Farage took his Brexit party to a large success and Johnson got in on the back of popular feeling. He then put a full stop to the question - as hard as could be.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 17, 2024 18:12:58 GMT
...not tried to illegally annul the result Except nothing even remotely close to that happened - nor, indeed, could it have had since it was never a legally-binding referendum - the legislation to enable it said it would happen, not what would happen with the result. fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/36/contents/enactedEverything beyond that was down to the government ... who didn't want parliament to have any say at all in how. Without Gina Miller's first court case, Parliament would have had no vote at all on whether A50 was to be invoked or not - parliament then voted 498 to 114 in favour of invocation before negotiation. Dominic Grieve then ensured parliament got the ability to vote on the terms on which the UK left - again, the government did not want them to. The result was the Spring 2019 "meaningful votes", which the government lost badly, leading to May's tenure ending and Johnson becoming PM. Miller's second court case was to prevent Johnson from using the illegal prorogation of parliament to get the UK out of the EU at the end of October 2019 - despite parliament not supporting his deal or leaving on the default WTO terms that would have been abysmal for any form of international trade. The proposed deal then got amended ( "oven-ready"), and parliament approved it. The calls for a second referendum were to give the public the chance to agree a deal or not. The first person to suggest that was that arch-remoaner... JRM. hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2011-10-24/debates/1110247000001/NationalReferendumOnTheEuropeanUnion#contribution-11102441000129
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 17, 2024 18:59:51 GMT
Vote for an independent, or stand yourself s an independent, or start your own party. I'm sure there are more people of your ilk. You only posted that so that you could use the word "ilk".
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Post by captainconfident on Feb 17, 2024 19:33:16 GMT
Vote for an independent, or stand yourself s an independent, or start your own party. I'm sure there are more people of your ilk. You only posted that so that you could use the word "ilk". I had no interest at all in what I was writing beyond saying ilk. I'm thinking of getting one.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 17, 2024 19:45:24 GMT
My ilk would never reply to this post.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Feb 17, 2024 19:55:38 GMT
ah haha ha,I'm so enjoying this thread.
Hang on now,
Back to respect for dead.
Here' s hoping that they are all having a hell of a good time now.
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