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Post by bernythedolt on Oct 18, 2022 17:56:36 GMT
I rather suspect the vast majority of mainstream staff in just about every larger company - regardless of industry, ownership, whatever - don't do that. In fact, the vast majority will almost certainly just rock up, do their job, go home - and not give it a second thought outside work hours. Posties, couriers, supermarkets, fast food, plumbers, whatever... Having run businesses in Korea, China, Belgium, Bolton, Hull, Bingley. I can advise that the norm you describe is why UK businesses are so sub-productive. Brits loving doing sfa at work other countries have a work ethic. Brits can learn to work, it needs honesty between management and the workforce and a drive to succeed. It isn't easy, it's called work. Shades of New York, Paris, Peckham...? 😉😁 I do agree that some staff do as little as they can get away with at work. I've worked with plenty of mentally lazy people in my time. We would do training courses together and I would always sit the optional exam at the end - it was my way of ensuring I had concentrated properly, understood the course material and it had stuck. If it hadn't stuck, I would have wasted several hundreds of pounds of taxpayers' money and that wouldn't have sat comfortably. Others would burger off home early, rather than spend that extra hour sitting the exam, ensuring they had bettered themselves. I passed all my training course exams and it showed in my work - I had a stream of A1 annual appraisals year after year, while others struggled. Unfortunately it made very little difference financially and some would say I was a total mug, but I felt better for it and more honest about myself. There were plenty of others I worked with of the same mindset as myself, good, honest, decent hard-workers. I also undertook a degree with the OU for 8 years whilst holding down a full time job as an employee. It was great discipline. Please don't write off every Brit as a lazy skiver. They exist, in fair numbers, but are still (I suspect) in the minority overall. It does eventually pay dividends, too. One mentally lazy colleague ended up having a mental breakdown and 6 months off work when he could no longer cope with the technical pressures of the job. He was one of the guys who routinely sailed off home smirking that others were mugs for bothering to take the optional exams...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2022 20:14:36 GMT
Managers manage, leaders lead. Sometimes the best leaders are management, sometimes not. The way you develop teams and individuals is to allow them space and time to develop. Thinking that managers should always lead went out in the sixties.
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Post by bernythedolt on Oct 18, 2022 20:45:49 GMT
Managers manage, leaders lead. Sometimes the best leaders are management, sometimes not. The way you develop teams and individuals is to allow them space and time to develop. Thinking that managers should always lead went out in the sixties. What a raging success that turned out to be. Lots of woolly thinking in the sixties.
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Post by bernythedolt on Oct 18, 2022 20:58:59 GMT
I've obviously misunderstood something then, but it wouldn't be a first! I was going with this. Berny when I click on that link it says there are trojans on the website Belated apologies to all. The Amazon tablet I was working with at the time didn't pick that up, but my Windows laptop is. EDIT: Potentially dodgy link on page 1 now deleted.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Oct 19, 2022 15:37:46 GMT
Some people are more motivated than others, managers, leaders, supervisors whatever, a colleague who will support and develop someones skillset must be congratulated. Most line managers I've come across are of like this and nearly all gave agendas.some may call them cliques.
It's not that most people are naturally lazy, some are granted but it's the demoralising effect from a new breed if management that's killing UK businesses.
I once had a sales director that would rather lose a major account than negotiate a deal. Churn I was told... I'm maybe old school but I always thought customer retention was key to building a business over long term as long as an account was profitable. Modern management can be arrogant, naive and so self righteous, no wonder they develop a them and us relationship!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 16:01:38 GMT
I'm not sure it is old or new. I once had to turn around a site where HQ hated the business and the staff of the business felt that their future had been stolen by HQ. Both were right. We turned it around by some conversations and adult stuff. Too easily this stuff reverts to playground panics.
You see it in social media as well ;-)
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 19, 2022 16:26:41 GMT
I'm not sure it is old or new. I once had to turn around a site where HQ hated the business and the staff of the business felt that their future had been stolen by HQ. Both were right. We turned it around by some conversations and adult stuff. Too easily this stuff reverts to playground panics.
You see it in social media as well ;-)
Transactional Analysis: Parent Adult Child Introduced to me probably about 30+ years or so ago. It was / is a very good framework. One might have to pinch oneself every now and again to remind oneself of its clarity and importance.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Oct 19, 2022 17:31:46 GMT
Berne for PM👍
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Post by moonraker on Nov 3, 2022 13:59:16 GMT
To get back to posties: Just had today's mail, one newsletter from an organisation to which I belong, plus a double dose of junk mail. But not a weekly magazine - usually arriving on Thursdays. I never did get the issue for two weeks ago. This has tipped me into cancelling my subscription, following a couple of years of thinking that the contents and me were drifting apart. Almost instant news coverage - and more of it - is available on line for less money. I'd been taking the magazine since 1959.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Nov 3, 2022 15:02:02 GMT
Wow you must be getting on a bit to have been taking a magazine for 63 years
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Post by moonraker on Nov 3, 2022 17:28:12 GMT
You cheeky young shaver! Back in 1959 it was Cycling & Mopeds - an unhappy combination. Now it's Cycling Weekly, full of scientific articles on how to improve one's performance and reviews of very expensive products - up to £400 for a pair of shoes, £180 for a pair of "bib shorts", £12K for a complete bike. I had to give up riding in 1996 but still follow major races. I used Campagnolo gears, brakes, chainsets etc, and nowadays bits from the era fetch high prices from people seeking to create vintage bikes. I even sold a couple of "Campag" spanners for a goodly sum.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 3, 2022 17:45:13 GMT
Back in 1959 it was Cycling & Mopeds - an unhappy combination.
Oooh, I dunno - those were the days of Winged Wheels and Cyclemasters and other such clip-ons providing overlap... The days when cycling was cheap transport not an expensive hobby...
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mogish
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Posties
Nov 4, 2022 12:14:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by mogish on Nov 4, 2022 12:14:41 GMT
As much as I think the posties need a pay rise(*avg wage 25k) the only way royal mail is going is contraction. All other carriers are happy to sweep up RM accounts. Just look at ebay notices... plenty of other choices for paying customers regardless of the posties pay challenge.
Striking on black friday may have an impact but sadly it will affect RM and PF long term
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2022 13:56:03 GMT
One of the core beliefs in Union Management relations in the UK, since time forgot, is the concept of "Custom and Practice". Very much a get out of jail free card in any Tribunal and one of the worst strategic situations for any organisation to find itself with.
I well remember having to buy a work force out of their "clock in time" +10 minutes that had built up in one organisation. Where the 10 minutes had come from, goodness knows but it had. Then I had the "if I'm minding two machines I should get 50% more pay" discussions, which I resolved by showing that I could buy the goods cheaper from next door than pay my men 1% more.
Such little things ensured that the UK lost its manufacturing business as management was spending its time solving this rather than beat the competition.
RM posties are on the way out because they won the right to bust the business years ago and will now do so. All in the name of worker's rights. Or.... Management gave up the control to run their businesses years ago, all in the name of trying to work with people. You probably have already decided which, but let's not get too sentimental about a tired washed up business which is really just a pension scheme for civil servants. (see also NCB, British Steel, British Rail, British Leyland, British ship builders, Heathrow airport, Fleet street etc etc)
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Nov 4, 2022 16:27:35 GMT
I can remember during the 80's quite a long strike at a Crane manufacturer in my hometown.
The strike was caused by management wanting to employ extra staff rather than paying existing staff time and a half to do the work.
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