benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 14, 2023 15:01:01 GMT
Sadly, the super powers on this planet do not recognise the human rights of normal palestinian. They are stateless, and not being treated like any ordinary human beings. Just hopeless.
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 14, 2023 17:23:28 GMT
I disagree, it’s the weapons and people that brings massive destruction and violence. while I think I understand the distinction you are trying to make and why you are making it, I believe it is a false one. Religion is an idea, a concept, a creation by humans. In the absence of people it simply doesn't exist. Words on a page in scripture is not religion, anymore than words in a book are a story. In the absence of people to read those words and interpret, they remain just words. So it is simply not possible to separate the two, as religion does not exist without people.
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 14, 2023 17:25:57 GMT
"Weapons and people bring about destruction and death." Reportedly the Israeli government had American foreward intelligence of the attack by Hamas. Hamas attack gave legitimacy for the Israeli Defence Force to go in strong into Gaza. The mistake was to underestimate the level of violence perpetrated by Hamas on mainly defencelsss non-combatants. given how utterly ill prepared the IDF appears to have been, I think the idea that they were aware of an attack and were intending to use it as a pretext to strong into Gaza doesn't really pass the sniff test.
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 14, 2023 17:33:35 GMT
"Weapons and people bring about destruction and death." Reportedly the Israeli government had American foreward intelligence of the attack by Hamas. Hamas attack gave legitimacy for the Israeli Defence Force to go in strong into Gaza. The mistake was to underestimate the level of violence perpetrated by Hamas on mainly defencelsss non-combatants. .... None of this appears to be any different to the usual info flow that proceeds Hamas lobbing rockets at Israel in their hundreds. Israel seems to have been very complacent & focussed on the WB as a bigger danger given the interweaving of Palestinian & Israelis there.whether it was actually a bigger danger or not is probably a debatable point (actually not debatable anymore I guess). The fact that they were focussing efforts on the WB and had pushed security resources there was to a significant degree down to the pressures and demands of the right wing/religious parties that Likud (in the form of Netanyahu) was reliant on to be in power. Thanks to their supporter base being skewed to West bank settlers and the 'build in the west bank' lobby.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 14, 2023 18:27:21 GMT
If we look at our human horrible history, most wars have nothing to do with religion. Even at the micro levels, people just killed each other with weapons for whatever reasons, political, financial or survival.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 15, 2023 19:34:22 GMT
Two people on national news being sought for wearing a picture of a hang glider. Shouldn't that Wanted space be used for folk who have actually carried out heinous crimes themselves rather than those who sympathise (possibly misguided sympathy) with those that do ?
Meanwhile Braverman apparently wanted police to arrest demonstrators waving the Palestinian flag.
And Sunak decided not to mention at all in his recent comments, the plight of the Palestians focusing 100% on the Israelis. That in complete contrast to Blinken who certainly did mention them. Does Sunak believe this will guarantee him the jewish vote and on balance will give him a net positive vote tally ?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 15, 2023 19:59:33 GMT
Two people on national news being sought for wearing a picture of a hang glider. Shouldn't that Wanted space be used for folk who have actually carried out heinous crimes themselves rather than those who sympathise (possibly misguided sympathy) with those that do ? Meanwhile Braverman apparently wanted police to arrest demonstrators waving the Palestinian flag. And Sunak decided not to mention at all in his recent comments, the plight of the Palestians focusing 100% on the Israelis. That in complete contrast to Blinken who certainly did mention them. Does Sunak believe this will guarantee him the jewish vote and on balance will give him a net positive vote tally ? I think people are still trying to comprehend Hamas going into Israeli residential areas and deliberately seeking out and killing women and children (and I don't have much tolerance for people who celebrate that). We will think about the big picture later maybe.
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 16, 2023 8:36:09 GMT
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 16, 2023 9:19:09 GMT
the defending state can use as much force as is needed to address the threat—and no more.
I've always thought it perverse that you can have a war where one side is expected to fight by a different set of rules to the other. Historically arab people (countries and individuals) take and kill hostages, use human shields, use chemical weapons and target civilians. Why should the other side not do the same?
As the old saying goes, all's fair in love and war.
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Post by mostlywrong on Oct 16, 2023 9:29:16 GMT
If we look at our human horrible history, most wars have nothing to do with religion. Even at the micro levels, people just killed each other with weapons for whatever reasons, political, financial or survival. Resources (water, food etc), space (lebensraum) and sheer hate.
Religion is, in my opinion, just another hook on which to hang the raison d'etre for violence. If that isn't an antithesis...!
MW
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 16, 2023 9:42:41 GMT
Thanks to the library and an app, the option for subscription is not necessary. Plenty of news paper available to read on a free reader app.
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Post by mostlywrong on Oct 16, 2023 9:43:58 GMT
Two people on national news being sought for wearing a picture of a hang glider. Shouldn't that Wanted space be used for folk who have actually carried out heinous crimes themselves rather than those who sympathise (possibly misguided sympathy) with those that do ? Meanwhile Braverman apparently wanted police to arrest demonstrators waving the Palestinian flag. And Sunak decided not to mention at all in his recent comments, the plight of the Palestians focusing 100% on the Israelis. That in complete contrast to Blinken who certainly did mention them. Does Sunak believe this will guarantee him the jewish vote and on balance will give him a net positive vote tally ? On a point of information only.
The poor quality photographs winging  their way around the world do not, in my opinion, show a hang glider. They show a ram-air parachute, which is much loved by the sport parachute community for being relatively stable in the air. In the hands of an expert, they can be thrown around the sky in order to entertain the punters at air displays and fetes.
For their assault, Hamas appeared to use a powered trike (which was originally developed to add power to a hang glider) under a paraglider wing. From the perspective of Hamas, the paraglider wing can be crushed into a large bag that looks like somebody's washing. The trike can be made to look like a 3 wheeled motorbike. Rigging time would be less than 30 minutes.
Hamas have used such beasts before but, IIRC, they were all shot down by the IDF as they are slow and cumbersome.
My view is that, should this reach the courts, any decent brief will be able to make the distinction.
MW
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 16, 2023 10:39:24 GMT
I've always thought it perverse that you can have a war where one side is expected to fight by a different set of rules to the other. No, all sides in a conflict are expected to fight by the same set of rules. True, some don't. That doesn't mean everybody should sink to that level... War crimes are triable in the Hague. "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king" - goes back to the Genesis Rabbah, a Jewish religious text from 500BC... "an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind" - attributed to Gandhi.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 16, 2023 13:08:02 GMT
I've always thought it perverse that you can have a war where one side is expected to fight by a different set of rules to the other. . True, some don't. That doesn't mean everybody should sink to that level... War crimes are triable in the Hague. "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king" - goes back to the Genesis Rabbah, a Jewish religious text from 500BC... "an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind" - attributed to Gandhi. I think your wording is a bit inaccurate.
International law requires all sides in a conflict to fight by the same rules. However, why would anyone expect arab countries to abide by the rules given they never have in the past.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 16, 2023 13:15:52 GMT
I've always thought it perverse that you can have a war where one side is expected to fight by a different set of rules to the other. No, all sides in a conflict are expected to fight by the same set of rules. I think your wording is a bit inaccurate. I simply echoed your word. Anyway, for those who don't have R4 as permanent aural wallpaper... www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001rv11Ep1 of 5 just been on, others on through the rest of the week.
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their way around the world do not, in my opinion, show a hang glider. They show a ram-air parachute, which is much loved by the sport parachute community for being relatively stable in the air. In the hands of an expert, they can be thrown around the sky in order to entertain the punters at air displays and fetes.