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Post by captainconfident on Oct 19, 2023 13:30:04 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 19, 2023 15:17:31 GMT
Agree with that. Some questions I have and genuinely don't know the answer to: 1/ Why has the US (and therefore the UK) long supported Israel in the conflict ? 2/ Why is the US concerned far more than most other non-regional countries about what happens in the Middle East? 3/ Why don't other super-powers (I'm thinking China, India etc) not get involved to the same extent? 4/ Is Israel gong to launch a ground invasion? 5/ Who attacked the hospital? On that, it was interesting to me that for the first day or so a figure of 500 deaths was touted. Then it was realised that the people that run the hospital are "Hamas" as they are the state. So the figure has since been questioned.
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Post by captainconfident on Oct 19, 2023 15:49:56 GMT
1/ Why has the US (and therefore the UK) long supported Israel in the conflict ?2/ Why is the US concerned far more than most other non-regional countries about what happens in the Middle East?
3/ Why don't other super-powers (I'm thinking China, India etc) not get involved to the same extent?
4/ Is Israel gong to launch a ground invasion?Actually I don't think they will. Chances of getting bogged down in endless street fighting, where the enemy appears and disappears from underground tunnels and sewers (like the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising) are high. 5/ Who attacked the hospital? On that, it was interesting to me that for the first day or so a figure of 500 deaths was touted. Then it was realised that the people that run the hospital are "Hamas" as they are the state. So the figure has since been questioned.The Israeli spokesman was quick off the blocks with "We don't target civilians" stuff, but that only works on people with shorter memories than mine, which lead me to look up the thing I remembered. And indeed, it has its own internet page. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana_massacreI remember very clearly the horror of the UN eyewitness as they were in phone contact with the IDF when they were hit with multiple shells.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 19, 2023 19:27:05 GMT
Agree with that. Some questions I have and genuinely don't know the answer to: 1/ Why has the US (and therefore the UK) long supported Israel in the conflict ? 2/ Why is the US concerned far more than most other non-regional countries about what happens in the Middle East? 3/ Why don't other super-powers (I'm thinking China, India etc) not get involved to the same extent? 4/ Is Israel gong to launch a ground invasion? 5/ Who attacked the hospital? On that, it was interesting to me that for the first day or so a figure of 500 deaths was touted. Then it was realised that the people that run the hospital are "Hamas" as they are the state. So the figure has since been questioned. 1/ Politics & history - holocaust, large Jewish constituency, fight against communism/NATO flank, pro-western style democracy, post-war support for self-determination, defence against aggression (remember Arabs attacked Israel from day 1) I would say 'therefore UK' isnt accurate, Britain has a much more complex position as the former colonial power in the region and close ties with Arab states ... The very nature of the attack & its victims 2/ Not sure thats true ... Russia, France, have been involved ... Germans have a specific interest. US have been the ones to get things done. 3/ Dont have the historical perspective, interests elsewhere 4/ Probably, air power alone cant achieve the objectives 5/ No one ... the evidence suggests the 'attack' on the carpark was most likely accidental impact of a faulty rocket not a bomb ... crater too shallow, damage not violent or extensive enough ... the death figure is high for nature of 'attack' but there is evidence of a concentration of people in the carpark due to overcrownding/seeking sanctuary
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 20, 2023 20:32:00 GMT
I've got a supplementary question for you:
The US President said yesterday "American leadership is what holds the world together."
Do you agree with him and most americans who likely think the same ?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 20, 2023 21:23:45 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 21, 2023 18:19:50 GMT
I've got a supplementary question for you: The US President said yesterday "American leadership is what holds the world together." Do you agree with him and most americans who likely think the same ? There would be a VERY large power vacuum if the US ceased to play the role they do. No other country can do it. Imagine the chaos if Ukraine or the current Gaza situations had developed under Biden's predecessor...
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 21, 2023 19:13:03 GMT
I've got a supplementary question for you: The US President said yesterday "American leadership is what holds the world together." Do you agree with him and most americans who likely think the same ? There would be a VERY large power vacuum if the US ceased to play the role they do. No other country can do it. Imagine the chaos if Ukraine or the current Gaza situations had developed under Biden's predecessor...If everyone's most decent and honourable politician had been president, there'd have been no war in Ukraine. I know you'll agree with me that the man simply exudes integrity but remember he spent most of his life dealing with high level crooks in property etc. And he dealt with them pretty well. Putin would have been no different. One other thing, whilst both Ukraine and Russia have a very large racist and misogynistic population they are also (well most of them) incredibly ageist. Shan't get into proving that here but it is quite likely in Putin's eyes that Biden's age made him weaker and less likely to respond should Russia invade Ukraine. He was right in part - it took over 18 months to approve atacms for examle.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 22, 2023 7:07:54 GMT
There would be a VERY large power vacuum if the US ceased to play the role they do. No other country can do it. Imagine the chaos if Ukraine or the current Gaza situations had developed under Biden's predecessor...If everyone's most decent and honourable politician had been president, there'd have been no war in Ukraine. I know you'll agree with me that the man simply exudes integrity but remember he spent most of his life dealing with high level crooks in property etc. And he dealt with them pretty well. Putin would have been no different. One other thing, whilst both Ukraine and Russia have a very large racist and misogynistic population they are also (well most of them) incredibly ageist. Shan't get into proving that here but it is quite likely in Putin's eyes that Biden's age made him weaker and less likely to respond should Russia invade Ukraine. He was right in part - it took over 18 months to approve atacms for examle. The rest is eyebrow raising enough, but the "Biden's too old" argument in favour of his predecessor coming back seems to ignore Biden being only three and a bit years older - which would make either of them the oldest to be inaugurated come 2025. I'd suggest they're both way too old for the job, and it's depressing that there don't appear to be any suitable candidates likely to emerge.
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 22, 2023 8:29:02 GMT
There would be a VERY large power vacuum if the US ceased to play the role they do. No other country can do it. Imagine the chaos if Ukraine or the current Gaza situations had developed under Biden's predecessor...If everyone's most decent and honourable politician had been president, there'd have been no war in Ukraine. I know you'll agree with me that the man simply exudes integrity but remember he spent most of his life dealing with high level crooks in property etc. And he dealt with them pretty well. Putin would have been no different. One other thing, whilst both Ukraine and Russia have a very large racist and misogynistic population they are also (well most of them) incredibly ageist. Shan't get into proving that here but it is quite likely in Putin's eyes that Biden's age made him weaker and less likely to respond should Russia invade Ukraine. He was right in part - it took over 18 months to approve atacms for examle. We are talking about the same man that spent 4 years doing his best to undermine Nato and frequently threatening to take the US out of Nato ? And the same man who we know is happy to talk about and wave some of the most highly classified documents in front of nobodies to show how important he is ? And the same man who it is alleged talked about highly classified information to an Australian businessman in order to 'sell' the capabilities of US nuclear subs ? And the same man who had a meeting with Putin with only interpreter present, not any advisor, and then took his interpreters notes away and told him to keep his mouth shut ? And did similar on other occasions. That's the man we are talking about right ?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 22, 2023 8:58:28 GMT
If everyone's most decent and honourable politician had been president, there'd have been no war in Ukraine. I know you'll agree with me that the man simply exudes integrity but remember he spent most of his life dealing with high level crooks in property etc. And he dealt with them pretty well. Putin would have been no different. One other thing, whilst both Ukraine and Russia have a very large racist and misogynistic population they are also (well most of them) incredibly ageist. Shan't get into proving that here but it is quite likely in Putin's eyes that Biden's age made him weaker and less likely to respond should Russia invade Ukraine. He was right in part - it took over 18 months to approve atacms for examle. We are talking about the same man that spent 4 years doing his best to undermine Nato and frequently threatening to take the US out of Nato ? And the same man who we know is happy to talk about and wave some of the most highly classified documents in front of nobodies to show how important he is ? And the same man who it is alleged talked about highly classified information to an Australian businessman in order to 'sell' the capabilities of US nuclear subs ? And the same man who had a meeting with Putin with only interpreter present, not any advisor, and then took his interpreters notes away and told him to keep his mouth shut ? And did similar on other occasions. That's the man we are talking about right ? TBF. michaelc isn't wrong. There wouldn't be a war in Ukraine. Ukraine would have been annexed in about two days...
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 22, 2023 8:58:59 GMT
If everyone's most decent and honourable politician had been president, there'd have been no war in Ukraine. I know you'll agree with me that the man simply exudes integrity but remember he spent most of his life dealing with high level crooks in property etc. And he dealt with them pretty well. Putin would have been no different. One other thing, whilst both Ukraine and Russia have a very large racist and misogynistic population they are also (well most of them) incredibly ageist. Shan't get into proving that here but it is quite likely in Putin's eyes that Biden's age made him weaker and less likely to respond should Russia invade Ukraine. He was right in part - it took over 18 months to approve atacms for examle. The rest is eyebrow raising enough, but the "Biden's too old" argument in favour of his predecessor coming back seems to ignore Biden being only three and a bit years older - which would make either of them the oldest to be inaugurated come 2025. I'd suggest they're both way too old for the job, and it's depressing that there don't appear to be any suitable candidates likely to emerge. Unfortunately, being too old or just plain incompetent doesn't appear to be an impediment to becoming president of USA.
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 22, 2023 10:01:23 GMT
If everyone's most decent and honourable politician had been president, there'd have been no war in Ukraine. I know you'll agree with me that the man simply exudes integrity but remember he spent most of his life dealing with high level crooks in property etc. And he dealt with them pretty well. Putin would have been no different. One other thing, whilst both Ukraine and Russia have a very large racist and misogynistic population they are also (well most of them) incredibly ageist. Shan't get into proving that here but it is quite likely in Putin's eyes that Biden's age made him weaker and less likely to respond should Russia invade Ukraine. He was right in part - it took over 18 months to approve atacms for examle. We are talking about the same man that spent 4 years doing his best to undermine Nato and frequently threatening to take the US out of Nato ? And the same man who we know is happy to talk about and wave some of the most highly classified documents in front of nobodies to show how important he is ? And the same man who it is alleged talked about highly classified information to an Australian businessman in order to 'sell' the capabilities of US nuclear subs ? And the same man who had a meeting with Putin with only interpreter present, not any advisor, and then took his interpreters notes away and told him to keep his mouth shut ? And did similar on other occasions. That's the man we are talking about right ? and the same man that blocked a $400m military aid package to Ukraine for purely selfish political reasons as he tried to strong arm Zelensky into doing an investigation in Hunter Biden in return for releasing the aid ?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 22, 2023 14:20:51 GMT
We are talking about the same man that spent 4 years doing his best to undermine Nato and frequently threatening to take the US out of Nato ? And the same man who we know is happy to talk about and wave some of the most highly classified documents in front of nobodies to show how important he is ? And the same man who it is alleged talked about highly classified information to an Australian businessman in order to 'sell' the capabilities of US nuclear subs ? And the same man who had a meeting with Putin with only interpreter present, not any advisor, and then took his interpreters notes away and told him to keep his mouth shut ? And did similar on other occasions. That's the man we are talking about right ? TBF. michaelc isn't wrong. There wouldn't be a war in Ukraine. Ukraine would have been annexed in about two days... So you and Ace believe that the first two days of the war were due to American support? That's just laughable.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 22, 2023 15:19:53 GMT
TBF. michaelc isn't wrong. There wouldn't be a war in Ukraine. Ukraine would have been annexed in about two days... So you and Ace believe that the first two days of the war were due to American support? That's just laughable. No, I think that without US support, Ukrainian resistance would have lasted about two days.
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