adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 2, 2023 6:27:04 GMT
Having some knowledge of Boston ( Lincs ) the place that voted most heavily for Brexit. the people there have funny ideas, they claim that the "foreigners" are taking there jobs, however talking recently to someone who employs staff there they can't get locals to apply for jobs for love nor money. This has led to employers asking for permission to bring workers in, whilst those same people sit and claim benefits. Most of those jobs are a way of life. Usually a "way of life" jobs are interesting or nobody would do them. Here though the vast majority of the workforce live on site in the farm in small huts shared with many other workers. The idea is that during that time you work as hard as you can and then leave at the end of the season to go home to enjoy the fruits of your labour. How can a local compete with that work ethic ? Umm, easily, if they want to get off their arses and work for money. Same as other seasonal jobs - tourism, Xmas packing, etc. There's a farm not far from here that brings in seasonal pickers. They used to be Eastern European. Now, they're Nepali. There's plenty of farms round here that have also tried over the last few years to employ British staff as seasonal pickers... www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/brexit-eu-agriculture-farms-fruit-picking-migrant-workers-labour-shortage-a8469806.htmlwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-65607843But it won't be long before they aren't needed, automated out of jobs, as so many have been before them. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-fruit-pickers-robot-eu-migrant-workers-essex-university-eastern-europe-a8511321.html
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 2, 2023 12:10:33 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 2, 2023 12:30:54 GMT
No. A job is normally a part of one's life. 40 hours or so per week and that's it. To do this kind of job, it is 24/7. You are living with your workers in cramped spaces and typically working 60 hours. Are you also suggesting that British people are somehow more inherently lazy than other nations ?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 2, 2023 16:32:53 GMT
Umm, easily, if they want to get off their arses and work for money. Same as other seasonal jobs - tourism, Xmas packing, etc. No. A job is normally a part of one's life. 40 hours or so per week and that's it. I'll let you suggest that to the farmer. I don't think I ascribed any kind of characteristic to any nationality. But I'm sure you'd agree with me that people willing to move to the other side of the continent or world to better their lot are far less lazy than those who don't want to get a job a few miles down the road.
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Post by crabbyoldgit on Sept 2, 2023 19:41:39 GMT
The problem is that those people coming from afar think they are going to be vastly better off doing these poorly payed no future jobs, able to build a future ,buy a house raise family in comfort and security. While the ones just down the road know that under £10 per hour will never give them a secure decent home and future and therefore say bugger a bit less than nothing on the dole is still nothing.
I find it simply incredible that city idiots can say inflation has to be resolved by making working people poorer by accepting below inflation pay rises and give themselves 16% at the same time.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 2, 2023 20:12:40 GMT
No. A job is normally a part of one's life. 40 hours or so per week and that's it. I'll let you suggest that to the farmer. I don't get your point ? Being PM is probably a way of life. Being in the army probably is. Being at sea for weeks on end. etc. Are you really suggesting picking fruit and veg should largely consume ones entire life? And that to "only" want to do it for 40 hours of the week makes one lazy ? And to the other point made here, most of the folk doing this do not do it to settle down. They do it to make a fortune on minimum wage but for crazy hours and then go home. Some do stay of course but that's not the pattern.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 2, 2023 20:18:11 GMT
Having some knowledge of Boston ( Lincs ) the place that voted most heavily for Brexit. the people there have funny ideas, they claim that the "foreigners" are taking there jobs, however talking recently to someone who employs staff there they can't get locals to apply for jobs for love nor money. This has led to employers asking for permission to bring workers in, whilst those same people sit and claim benefits. Sorry, but I doubt that bit I've highlighted is true. Everybody has their price. There would be a level of wages that would definitely attract applicants, it's just that the employer isn't willing to pay it and prefers his cheap imported labour, to maximise his profits. It's time employers paid the proper rate for the job. Either that, or the state has to tighten up on benefits to force it more attractive to seek paid work. Relying on cheap imported labour while our own people sit idle picking up welfare benefits doesn't make any sense. Some years ago my stepson was talking to one of his friends who was unemployed, and mentioned they had a vacancy. His friend did some maths and said he couldn't take the job as he's be working for less than £1 per hour. I agree every job has a price, but would you see it as fair that the guy picking sprouts is paid more than a Nurse, and that a bag of Sprouts is now £10
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Post by bernythedolt on Sept 2, 2023 23:04:18 GMT
Sorry, but I doubt that bit I've highlighted is true. Everybody has their price. There would be a level of wages that would definitely attract applicants, it's just that the employer isn't willing to pay it and prefers his cheap imported labour, to maximise his profits. It's time employers paid the proper rate for the job. Either that, or the state has to tighten up on benefits to force it more attractive to seek paid work. Relying on cheap imported labour while our own people sit idle picking up welfare benefits doesn't make any sense. Some years ago my stepson was talking to one of his friends who was unemployed, and mentioned they had a vacancy. His friend did some maths and said he couldn't take the job as he's be working for less than £1 per hour. I agree every job has a price, but would you see it as fair that the guy picking sprouts is paid more than a Nurse, and that a bag of Sprouts is now £10 Is it that unfair? The sprout picker is probably labouring much harder for the day, plus his work is seasonal so he's unlikely to do as well as the nurse in the long run. Is it fair that the tube driver sat on his backside all day - some driving fully automated trains - collects a far bigger salary than most of the nurses on his train? That the gas fitter earns far more than the brilliant scientist whose boiler he's servicing? And then there's football kickers, tennis ball batters, snooker ball cue-ists, etc, etc...  It should be left to market forces, but they've been perversely skewed by the benefit system, minimum wage, working tax credits and the like.... as your stepson's friend illustrates well.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 3, 2023 8:26:31 GMT
Some years ago my stepson was talking to one of his friends who was unemployed, and mentioned they had a vacancy. His friend did some maths and said he couldn't take the job as he's be working for less than £1 per hour. The taper for people coming off JSA/UB for only a few hours of work is a separate issue entirely.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 3, 2023 16:52:06 GMT
Sorry, but I doubt that bit I've highlighted is true. Everybody has their price. There would be a level of wages that would definitely attract applicants, it's just that the employer isn't willing to pay it and prefers his cheap imported labour, to maximise his profits. It's time employers paid the proper rate for the job. Either that, or the state has to tighten up on benefits to force it more attractive to seek paid work. Relying on cheap imported labour while our own people sit idle picking up welfare benefits doesn't make any sense. Some years ago my stepson was talking to one of his friends who was unemployed, and mentioned they had a vacancy. His friend did some maths and said he couldn't take the job as he's be working for less than £1 per hour. I agree every job has a price, but would you see it as fair that the guy picking sprouts is paid more than a Nurse, and that a bag of Sprouts is now £10 Working a 40 hour week, minimum wage is £21,673 so that's a gross of about £1806 per month. Universal Credit is about £300 per month for a "normal" single person. How does your maths of working for £1 per hour make any sense ?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Sept 3, 2023 17:26:56 GMT
How does your maths of working for £1 per hour make any sense ? Because of the "some years ago" qualifier.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 3, 2023 19:36:13 GMT
How does your maths of working for £1 per hour make any sense ? Because of the "some years ago" qualifier. I think the answer is more related to housing benefit.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 3, 2023 21:43:32 GMT
Some years ago my stepson was talking to one of his friends who was unemployed, and mentioned they had a vacancy. His friend did some maths and said he couldn't take the job as he's be working for less than £1 per hour. I agree every job has a price, but would you see it as fair that the guy picking sprouts is paid more than a Nurse, and that a bag of Sprouts is now £10 Working a 40 hour week, minimum wage is £21,673 so that's a gross of about £1806 per month. Universal Credit is about £300 per month for a "normal" single person. How does your maths of working for £1 per hour make any sense ? young guy with a partner and child. Benefits including Housing Benefit, Council tax benefit etc.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 4, 2023 9:12:52 GMT
But a life on benefits shouldn't be an option...
I look at the guy that lives opposite me and think the system is stupid.
about 4 years ago he fell and messed up his hip, he's in constant pain and struggles to walk.
as a result he's getting benefits
a couple of years ago he was saying that he's be grateful when last year came around as he would hit 40 and the NHS would do his hip ( apparently they last 15 years )
Last year I was talking to him and mentioned his hip and he said the Welsh NHS have put it off for 5 years that way he will get replacements at 45, 60, 75 rather than 40, 55, 70 and possibly another at 85.
so he has 4 more years on benefits before they will do his hip, blimey talk about left hand right hand, yes it may save the NHS some cash but in the meantime he is claiming when he could be working.
oh and he was told at a recent GP appointment that if he was involved in an accident his hip would be replaced as an emergency
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 4, 2023 15:15:52 GMT
But a life on benefits shouldn't be an option...I look at the guy that lives opposite me and think the system is stupid. about 4 years ago he fell and messed up his hip, he's in constant pain and struggles to walk. as a result he's getting benefits a couple of years ago he was saying that he's be grateful when last year came around as he would hit 40 and the NHS would do his hip ( apparently they last 15 years ) Last year I was talking to him and mentioned his hip and he said the Welsh NHS have put it off for 5 years that way he will get replacements at 45, 60, 75 rather than 40, 55, 70 and possibly another at 85. so he has 4 more years on benefits before they will do his hip, blimey talk about left hand right hand, yes it may save the NHS some cash but in the meantime he is claiming when he could be working. oh and he was told at a recent GP appointment that if he was involved in an accident his hip would be replaced as an emergency What to do if you're incapable of work ?
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