benaj
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Post by benaj on May 23, 2024 12:07:53 GMT
I don’t want to sound negative. But no one likes the sound of negativity in those meetings. I suppose the lot knew it’s better not to found the entire truth to avoid any culpability.
“Hey captain, this boat has holes for years!” “No, it doesn’t. You better check other side doesn’t have hole” “This side is fine” “Great, get a stamp on our log”
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on May 23, 2024 13:13:58 GMT
I've seen quite a few people giving evidence, and I don't believe there is one that has been completely honest. What a shame the interrogation couldn't be a bit more like this.
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Post by bracknellboy on May 23, 2024 15:09:30 GMT
Jason Beer has been saving some of his best for Paula Vennells. Mind you, he's had some good material to work with.
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ethel
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Post by ethel on May 23, 2024 17:41:27 GMT
I've no sympathy for Paula Vennells and think that she deserves the grillings she's getting, but I did feel uncomfortable at seeing her and the other ladies (lawyers?) having to force their way through the media scrum as they arrived for the hearing. I expect the sub postmasters/mistresses whose lives she ruined had to suffer much worse media exposure than she's had to contend with. She deserves everything she gets.
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ethel
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Post by ethel on May 23, 2024 17:47:57 GMT
Jason Beer has been saving some of his best for Paula Vennells. Mind you, he's had some good material to work with. I can't decide whether she's a total liar or totally incompetent. If you believe her, she didn't have a clue about anything. She got paid a lot of money to know very little. Doesn't seem very likely to me.
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Post by bracknellboy on May 23, 2024 18:08:17 GMT
I really can't work Vennells out. I started out on this not knowing whether she was incompetent or the organisation was incompetent or both; she was lied to by others in the organisation (to cover their a*****s) or knew all the pertinent facts; that she was naive and got pulled along by bad advise (advise probably driven by institutional culture) or others were bowing to her stated strategic direction; or she was too far above things as CEO to really have a grasp (despite the rather obvious point that if your org is involved in a high profile and hugely expensive case, or you are personally going in front of an HoC SC, you really ought to be making sure you are on top of things as the CEO). I too have struggled to make her out, but as her evidence has gone on I've been coming to the conclusion that she is indeed pretty intelligent, that she could not have been so naive, she was a major force behind the behaviour of the PO (even if she inherited a bad situation) has appalling ethics and morals, and that she is now at the inquiry quite frequently lying through her teeth and trying to persuade people that black is in fact white. I think Jason Beer - and his team - have done a pretty fine job in following the trail of the evidence to join up the dots and reveal a particular underlying narrative and then walk PV right into a corner that whatever insincere garbage is coming out of her mouth doesn't stack up. There have been some pretty telling moments. How many times has she had to say that in some communication or other she used language which didn't convey what she meant ? And that in fact she really did mean something completely different ? One or two you might forgive, but the pieces weave themselves into a tapestry which depicts a pretty condemning picture. IMHO. One example is the note regarding Susan Crichton, with PV writing that (and I'm doing from memory) that "she put her obligations to her legal professional conduct standards above the needs of the business". Said as a negative F*S. The way she tried to explain that away was so utterly lacking in any credibility that she had to be lying through her teeth, or another part of her anatomy. If she really meant that she had two major roles - one the corporate legal job and the other the business project (oversight of SS?) - and she had neglected one in favour of the other, then it would have read along lines of "she spent too much time on her legal role to the detriment of her business function role". Not that she put her professional standards adherence above the business needs. Her attempted "explanation" was mind blowing, and by way of that quite illuminating. IMHO The bit I'm still really struggling with though is: motivation. Did she just get too far into a particular "reality" that she couldn't back out of it and had to continually dig deeper ? Regardless, it shows her ethics to be appalling. Does she have a mindset of they are just 'little people, unimportant' compared to the 'public institution'. We are back to morals again.
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Post by batchoy on May 24, 2024 7:17:45 GMT
Jason Beer has been saving some of his best for Paula Vennells. Mind you, he's had some good material to work with. I can't decide whether she's a total liar or totally incompetent. If you believe her, she didn't have a clue about anything. She got paid a lot of money to know very little. Doesn't seem very likely to me. Having watched a stream of senior Post Office executives seemingly have no actual knowledge and understanding about how the business they were supposedly running worked, I'm left wondering if this resticted to just the Post Office and them just trying to protect their own arses or indicative of senior executives as a whole. Though given my experince of a working in a multi-national where MDs were parachuted in every 4 years, I have to say I suspect the latter is probably closer to the truth.
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Post by bracknellboy on May 24, 2024 8:01:28 GMT
I've no sympathy for Paula Vennells and think that she deserves the grillings she's getting, but I did feel uncomfortable at seeing her and the other ladies (lawyers?) having to force their way through the media scrum as they arrived for the hearing. I expect the sub postmasters/mistresses whose lives she ruined had to suffer much worse media exposure than she's had to contend with. She deserves everything she gets. and in many cases had to live with the opprobrium of their local communities. As well as having been made bankrupt. And effectively coerced into admissions of guilt for something they had not wittingly done - "false accounting" - or had in effect been forced into by the awful circumstances they found themselves in. A bit of a media scrum at a national public enquiry is the least of her worries. BTW, I did go back and watch and I didn't think it was that bad. She was accompanied by police officers and didn't have to force her way through. But perhaps that was day 2 and day 1 was different.
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Post by bracknellboy on May 24, 2024 8:05:32 GMT
I can't decide whether she's a total liar or totally incompetent. If you believe her, she didn't have a clue about anything. She got paid a lot of money to know very little. Doesn't seem very likely to me. Having watched a stream of senior Post Office executives seemingly have no actual knowledge and understanding about how the business they were supposedly running worked, I'm left wondering if this resticted to just the Post Office and them just trying to protect their own arses or indicative of senior executives as a whole. Though given my experince of a working in a multi-national where MDs were parachuted in every 4 years, I have to say I suspect the latter is probably closer to the truth. many of the players involved in this were long termers, even near lifers. PV may have only been made CEO in 2012, but she was an internal appointment and had joined in 2007. So not a long long termer, but also not a newbie. Still, doesn't seem to have imbued her with any deep knowledge of the business and its SPMS. Despite starting out as the Group Network Director. If you believe a word she is saying.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on May 24, 2024 8:17:44 GMT
I am puzzled. I know the police and CPS are not directly responsible for these wrongful convictions. But why none of them poke POL about this?
Is it because POL is owned by the government and no one care to look into the mystery?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 24, 2024 8:26:33 GMT
I am puzzled. I know the police and CPS are not directly responsible for these wrongful convictions. But why none of them poke POL about this? Is it because POL is owned by the government and no one care to look into the mystery? I think it's the job of these people - ccrc.gov.uk/ .
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benaj
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Post by benaj on May 24, 2024 8:29:05 GMT
I am puzzled. I know the police and CPS are not directly responsible for these wrongful convictions. But why none of them poke POL about this? Is it because POL is owned by the government and no one care to look into the mystery? I think it's the job of these people - ccrc.gov.uk/ . Do they have a proactive approach or more like “press a button and getting a ticket to be seen approach?”
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Post by bracknellboy on May 24, 2024 8:44:22 GMT
I am puzzled. I know the police and CPS are not directly responsible for these wrongful convictions. But why none of them poke POL about this? Is it because POL is owned by the government and no one care to look into the mystery? don't forget it was the responsibility of the prosecuting authority, in this case POL, to do disclosure. That is the core of the failure: their expert witness lied in court, their CEO lied to the HoC SC, and they failed to disclose the facts that demonstrably showed the convictions to be built on foundations of sand. Without that out in the open, there was nothing for the CCRC to really work on. Except on case by case basis and doing so in the absence of that crucial knowledge.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on May 24, 2024 9:13:32 GMT
Are you saying there’s no independent body has the power to poke an entity like POL when something doesn’t smell right when traces of wrongdoing can’t be found without prying them?
I suppose the closest thing is the Beeb’s Panorama program. Isn’t odd is not on their radar in the past?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 24, 2024 9:13:34 GMT
She's being taken to task this morning, and deserves it. If I had only one word available to describe her I think I'd have to choose sanctimonious.
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