jonno
Member of DD Central
nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Jan 17, 2024 10:08:46 GMT
Your pedantic  My pedantic?  I just knew you wouldn't be able to resist it 
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jan 17, 2024 10:10:41 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 17, 2024 10:13:59 GMT
I was hoping for your suggestions on stopping the Israel-Palestine conflict. I agree that it's quite surprising nobody's thought of doing that yet.
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jan 17, 2024 10:38:48 GMT
I was hoping for your suggestions on stopping the Israel-Palestine conflict. I agree that it's quite surprising nobody's thought of doing that yet. I do not think it would be easy but there are certainly a number of important actors in the region who would like to see the situation de-escalated, such as the US* and Saudi Arabia. As far as I see the current situation is only empowering the people who want to destroy Israel rather than find some kind of solution to the various disputes. Obviously an all out war between Israel and the various factions who would like to see it destroyed would be catastrophic and should be avoided at all costs. www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-782400* - Not the hard line neo-cons on the payroll of the US Military Industries, such as Nikki Haley.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 17, 2024 10:45:49 GMT
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benaj
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N/A
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Post by benaj on Jan 17, 2024 10:51:27 GMT
I was hoping for your suggestions on stopping the Israel-Palestine conflict. I agree that it's quite surprising nobody's thought of doing that yet. Or might the friends of the enemies busy resolving their “homeland” issue is taking advantage of their geographical location. No point fighting their “homeland” when hardly hurting the “enemies”. Agents of the middle kingdom is busy taking advantage and doing trade tours “deepening” their strategic partnership with EU members.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 17, 2024 10:53:51 GMT
I was hoping for your suggestions on stopping the Israel-Palestine conflict. I agree that it's quite surprising nobody's thought of doing that yet. Or might the friends of the enemies busy resolving their “homeland” issue is taking advantage of their geographical location. No point fighting their “homeland” when hardly hurting the “enemies”. Agents of the middle kingdom is busy taking advantage and doing trade tours “deepening” their strategic partnership with EU members. Oooh, I do like cryptic puzzles.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 17, 2024 11:10:37 GMT
pikestaff I absolutely agree that diplomacy is both part of the solution and, ultimately, the only solution. I would have more sympathy for the connection with the Israel - Hamas conflict were the Houthis to confine their anti-shipping attacks to the shipping of Israel and her allies (though, granted, this is tricky to define given how ownership, flag, crew, cargo and source / destinateion can blur the lines). That having been said facillitating a peaceful, legitimate and just end to the Israel - Hamas (/Palestinian) conflict is a good in and of itself. Sadly, as ever, it will be very, very hard to achieve. Just for starters I'd be delighted if Hamas were to be destroyed, the religious right wing in Israel were to get their heads straightened out, and Netanyahu removed from power. I might as well add a viable two state solution enacted and respected by all. Oh well, pipe dreams... I also agree that Egypt (which is neck deep in financial doodoo at the moment) and the Saudis will be critical to any regional peace / stability effort. There are lots of other legitimate stakeholders too:- The US The UK Turkey Jordan Russia (sadly) Iran (sadly) Syria (sadly) China India Pakistan Denmark and Greece (because of their weight in shipping) Any nation highly reliant on global trade (ergo all of them but most obviously the EU). Russia and China will delighted to see the US and the UK entangled in this mess. I fear their input will be less than helpful and entirely self-interested. As with Iran, which is as concerned with the changing of its guard and consequential risks to internal stability as it is with anything else at the moment. It's an utter mess. And until it's sorted out I see military strikes on Houthi anti-ship capability as a legitimate part of the toolset.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 17, 2024 11:13:47 GMT
If we take military action off the table, has anybody got any actual suggestions as to what to do about the Houthis shooting at / hijacking international shipping? Assuming that regime change in Iran is off the table, the only way to stop them is diplomacy. Is that the same sort of diplomacy that has been going on for over a hundred years trying to sort out the Israel - Palestine problem?
Iran are the main problem and what incentive do they have to reach a diplomatic solution?
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Post by mostlywrong on Jan 17, 2024 11:27:55 GMT
I note that, early on, the Houthis claimed that they were supporting Hamas in their fight with Israel.
But. from the perspective of the Western media, all the Houthis have done is wipe the Hamas/Israel war off the front page. The media is now focussed on Yemen. Even if they don't know where it is...
Much the same happened to the Russo/Ukrainian war when Hamas kicked off back in October.
What else is going on that we don't see because the media is too focussed on the obvious?
MW
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 17, 2024 11:36:49 GMT
.... It's an utter mess. And until it's sorted out I see military strikes on Houthi anti-ship capability as a legitimate part of the toolset.Legitimate and almost certainly necessary: legitimate because a) it just is, under international law given the attacks that have been made b) because it is almost certainly is needed as an element to lever Iran or more likely short term to get them to pressure the Houthis. In the absence of meaningful action, what does anyone think will actually happen ? A penny to a pound the Houthis will simply be more emboldened and will continue / escalate. And Iran may also decide it has de facto been given carte blanche to also close the Strait of Hormuz when it wants without fear of any action. While countering risks adding fuel to the fire, not doing anything frankly has a greater risk of escalation. And of course of a ship being seriously damaged/sunk with loss of life. Oh, and if today the world lets the Red Sea be shutdown by the Houthis, what about China and future free passage through the South China Sea ?
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jan 17, 2024 11:53:43 GMT
.... It's an utter mess. And until it's sorted out I see military strikes on Houthi anti-ship capability as a legitimate part of the toolset.Legitimate and almost certainly necessary: legitimate because a) it just is, under international law given the attacks that have been made b) because it is almost certainly is needed as an element to lever Iran or more likely short term to get them to pressure the Houthis. In the absence of meaningful action, what does anyone think will actually happen ? A penny to a pound the Houthis will simply be more emboldened and will continue / escalate. And Iran may also decide it has de facto been given carte blanche to also close the Strait of Hormuz when it wants without fear of any action. While countering risks adding fuel to the fire, not doing anything frankly has a greater risk of escalation. And of course of a ship being seriously damaged/sunk with loss of life. Oh, and if today the world lets the Red Sea be shutdown by the Houthis, what about China and future free passage through the South China Sea ?
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jan 17, 2024 12:08:11 GMT
my issue with a cease fire in Gaza is that Hamas are refusing to accept that Israel has a right to exist.
so I suggest we agree that Gaza be controlled by Egypt, Egypt will be responsible for supplying Electricity, Water etc. After all why would the residents of Gaza want to be helped by a country and people they want to annihilate. Egypt should be made responsible for the return of the remaining hostages. All Palestinians held in Israeli prisons to be transferred to Egyptian ones with a guarantee that they will serve their terms, Hamas to disclose the location of all tunnels etc and they are to be destroyed, all Hamas weapons to be handed to the UN.
for each attack on Israel the size of Gaza to be reduced by 1 sq KM so if they continue to attack they will be in a smaller and smaller area.
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Post by mostlywrong on Jan 17, 2024 12:15:47 GMT
my issue with a cease fire in Gaza is that Hamas are refusing to accept that Israel has a right to exist. so I suggest we agree that Gaza be controlled by Egypt, Egypt will be responsible for supplying Electricity, Water etc. After all why would the residents of Gaza want to be helped by a country and people they want to annihilate. Egypt should be made responsible for the return of the remaining hostages. All Palestinians held in Israeli prisons to be transferred to Egyptian ones with a guarantee that they will serve their terms, Hamas to disclose the location of all tunnels etc and they are to be destroyed, all Hamas weapons to be handed to the UN. for each attack on Israel the size of Gaza to be reduced by 1 sq KM so if they continue to attack they will be in a smaller and smaller area. My understanding is that the Egyptians do not want the Palestinians any closer than they already are.
A while ago, I read an article that compared the Palestinians to Millwall supporters.
Whilst I would hesitate to go that far, I can see that they might have a point!
MW
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 17, 2024 12:38:41 GMT
Speaking of safe passage, history reminds me paying the gatekeeper might get a safe passage, just like paying the toll charge for using a “bridge” or “tunnel”, unless the gatekeeper ceases to exist.
Maybe it’s too early start negotiating the “toll”, some “works” are required to get a bargain “deal”.
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