keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jan 29, 2024 13:53:27 GMT
you could have argued the same in South Africa and elsewhere that sanctions tend to hurt the poor and disadvantaged Honestly I believe that the Houthis wouldn't be using drones etc to attack shipping without explicit instructions from the paymasters in Iran, indeed I would go so far as to suggest that IMHO it is likely they are supplied by Iran So you're suggesting we should stop providing aid to Iran, and stop trading with Iran...? Being honest and I'll get screamed at by some No trade with Iran, no aid to Iran No Aid to India, countries that can afford space programs can afford to help their citizens. personally I'd not give aid to any country that allows religion any part of or interference in government
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 29, 2024 14:01:02 GMT
So you're suggesting we should stop providing aid to Iran, and stop trading with Iran...? personally we should have levelled the country years ago I used to think in those terms some years ago. The bad guys should we wiped off the face of the map or their country should be "levelled". The problem is you'll find a lot of good guys living there - in fact most people the civilians don't deserve that. And also don't think we are immune. Many of us have sadly forgotten the last major attacks on this country in WW2. Some of those even started to use language terms that have the affect of watering down the scale and wickedness of the holocaust (but that's an argument for another day in a different thread). Point is we shouldn't consider ourselves as virtually invulnerable to being attacked in a big way.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 14:07:18 GMT
So you're suggesting we should stop providing aid to Iran, and stop trading with Iran...? personally we should have levelled the country years ago We should "level" a country of 88m people, because we don't like their government (which is not freely or fairly elected, let's not forget). Gotcha. Now, if we do so, roughly what proportion of that 88m population do you think the UK should provide refuge to? (Bearing in mind the UK is about 10% of the G7's population, and 7.5% of NATO's) Always assuming you foresee leaving any survivors, of course - because there is just one minor hiccup. "Article II In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: * Killing members of the group; * Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; * Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; * Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; * Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."But, regardless of such fine detail, do you feel that your suggestion would improve world peace and stability...?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 14:15:01 GMT
So you're suggesting we should stop providing aid to Iran, and stop trading with Iran...? Being honest and I'll get screamed at by some No trade with Iran, no aid to Iran Yeh, that's exactly what the current sanctions actually already do. The UK pledged to end aid to India in 2012. But there is the minor detail that India is the country with the largest number of people in absolute hunger and poverty in the world. Just abandon them to their fate? India, of course, is a conduit to market for Russian oil during the current Ukraine sanctions. If we piss Modi off even more, might he be tipped towards more overt and practical partnering with Putin? There are just two countries in the world with seats in government reserved exclusively for clerics of the established state religion. You won't be surprised that one is Iran. But I bet you won't guess which the other is...
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 29, 2024 14:38:33 GMT
Too right !! Parachute in Justin Welby
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 29, 2024 14:55:45 GMT
Too right !! Parachute in Justin Welby Or Paula Vennels perhaps?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 15:02:37 GMT
Too right !! Parachute in Justin Welby Or Paula Vennels perhaps? I think that counts as "cruel and inhumane" under the Geneva Convention and ECHR.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jan 29, 2024 15:22:56 GMT
India spends millions possibly billions on a space program, they could spend that money on their people, again part of the issue in India is the religions fractions
Perhaps we could solve the issues by banning religion and selling off the assets in the UK alone 200,000 acres, ban religion use that land for affordable housing.
and yes sometimes killing the innocent is unfortunately necessary to prevent or stop evil.
Bombing Dresden, Dambusters etc necessary and yes it is unfortunate that the innocent are killed or suffer, but did the deaths of those innocents prevent more lives being lost Using the Atomic bomb on Japan again IMHO necessary to prevent more deaths.
If necessary I would agree with bombing IRAN or North Korea if we have proof they are developing Atomic weapons, and I mean proof to a better standard than Tony B.Liar took us into Iraq with.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 29, 2024 17:26:51 GMT
India spends millions possibly billions on a space program, they could spend that money on their people, again part of the issue in India is the religions fractions The main problem is a right-wing, nationalist government. Since Modi came to power, long-term improvements in the development and poverty indicators have levelled off or deteriorated. Remind me - haven't some governments tried banning religion in the recent past? Now, which were they, and did it work out well for them? Still, I'm glad I've finally found somebody willing to point to one particular article in the European Convention on Human Rights that they think is a bad thing. www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/convention_ENGARTICLE 9 Freedom of thought, conscience and religion 1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance. 2. Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.Very similar wording to the UN universal declaration of human rights, btw. www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rightsArticle 18 Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.How will you be enforcing that? Will you be sending troops around the country to hunt out priests? Did that work well when it was tried here across the 16th to 18th centuries? Woah, hold on... A minute ago you were saying we should have "levelled" the country years ago (accepting mass deaths as inevitable)... just because. Without, seemingly, having any compelling or credible intelligence to justify it. Now you're saying that "if necessary" there'd be specific information required... clearly above and beyond a dossier presented to parliament, produced by the Joint Intelligence Committee. How many Houthi-caused deaths do you think would be saved by extensive bombing of Iran with the intention of regime change? I'm guessing you haven't been overly bothered over the last decade by the near-on half million Yemenis killed during the civil war? How many deaths do you think would be caused by a western-led attempt at regime change within Iran? How well has western-led enforced regime change worked to stabilise other countries...?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 29, 2024 22:31:21 GMT
Danish frigate on its way to the Red Sea to join the US op (unsurprisingly as they turn up for most US wars) - no ABM system, just SAMs but also Harpoon which means they could join in the 'lobbing' stuff at the Houthis if required.
"That is also why we, together with the Americans and the British, are now showing responsibility and sending a signal that we will not tolerate what is happening,” the minister said. (Much could be read into that given the inactivity of others) Obviously Danes have a strategic interest through Maersk (Houthis had a pop at one of their ships last week)
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 30, 2024 9:17:59 GMT
Danish frigate on its way to the Red Sea to join the US op
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