Looks like we're going to be attacking...

www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

Actual poll: pcpsr.org/en/node/963
"The sample size of this poll is 1231 adults, of whom 750 were interviewed face to face in the West Bank and 481 in the Gaza Strip"

"The overwhelming majority of respondents say that they have not seen videos from international or social media showing atrocities committed by Hamas members against Israeli civilians that day, such as the killing of women and children in their homes. Indeed, more than 90% believe that Hamas fighters did not commit the atrocities contained in these videos."

remember most Israeli attacks are in response to attacks on them.
personally I liken HAMAS to rabid dogs and they need to be put down, but yes if Israel attacks other than in response to being attacked then give gaza 1 sq KM back

IMHO yes, Israel protects its citizens, Hamas is happy for Women and Children to be outside of the shelters that the fighters are in then they claim that innocents are being hurt or killed.

Have you thought of the possibility that Israel is falling into a trap? Hamas are probably smarter than most people give them credit and were fully aware of what was going to happen after October the 7th. The only thing Israels response has done has strengthened the position of the people who want to see Israel destroyed, it has certainly not increased the security of the population of Israel. 

Pushed into, rather than 'fell into'. It's pretty clear that the main motivation of Hamas was to drag Israel into a major military action in the Gaza. Inevitably resulting in significant death of Gazan Palestinians and destruction of Gazan infrastructure - particularly given how Hamas has embedded its military infrastructure in the territory. All in the hope that would spark not just international condemnation but also a wider conflict. I doubt anyone - not just including Israel but especially Israel - were under any illusion that Hamas's actions had any other strategic objective. 

So we are in violent agreement on one thing: Hamas doesn't give a t*** about the lives of normal Palestinians in Gaza, and was and is very happy to put them on a sacrificial altar to serve its greater god-given objective of the elimination of the State of Israel. 

They knew as well as we should that no state could simply stand by after those atrocities and not go after those that committed them. Regardless of how they effectively used others as human shields. We can argue till the cows come home about whether the subsequent execution of that has been right, proportionate or legitimate.  But the idea that any state faced with that could have have not moved on Gaza is fanciful and denies their legitimate right of self defence and their populations expectation. 

So, not 'fallen into a trap' but put in a position where they had knowingly no choice but to do what Hamas wanted. Hamas in the meantime may have significantly miscalculated the propensity for others to get drawn in to the extent needed to eliminate Israel. Regardless of popular sentiment, Arab nations are not getting sucked in militarily. Hezbollah is demonstrating a good deal of reluctance to do more than condemn, posture, lob a few rockets and tie up manpower on the border. 

No, I don't, nor did I say it was. Please don't change the subject like that.

Perhaps you will note, though, that the figures I gave were up until the end of September 2023 - precisely for the reason that that was BEFORE the 7th October attacks, in order to illustrate that they did not come from nowhere.

1,139 killed (about 700 civilians). 3,400 wounded. 247 captured. 5 missing. All in one day of terrorism.


Really? More than 24,000 Gazans have been killed since then, and more than 60,000 have been wounded. The population of Israel is roughly ten million, the population of Gaza about half a million - so closing on one in five Gazans has been killed or wounded in the last three months. And almost the entire population has been displaced, kettled into a tiny area with no food or water or basic hygiene or medical care.

To put that into perspective, that's more deaths in three months than Ukrainians in two years of war. It's roughly four times as many on both sides as in the preceding 16 years.