michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 11, 2024 20:19:17 GMT
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 11, 2024 20:51:32 GMT
Not a country - they are rebels. Simple answer stop firing on civilian ships and NATO vessels.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 11, 2024 21:06:49 GMT
Not a country - they are rebels. Simple answer stop firing on civilian ships and NATO vessels. Seems a lot more complicated than that. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movementAs usual we (so it seems) will wade in. Don't be surprised if the number of small boats swell even further. But answer me this, why doesn't Germany, Norway, France, Denmark etc get involved? Lets see maybe some of them will but it seems to me its always the UK who is front of the pack in being an aggressive partner with the US.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 11, 2024 21:40:03 GMT
Not a country - they are rebels. Simple answer stop firing on civilian ships and NATO vessels. Seems a lot more complicated than that. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movementAs usual we (so it seems) will wade in. Don't be surprised if the number of small boats swell even further. But answer me this, why doesn't Germany, Norway, France, Denmark etc get involved? Lets see maybe some of them will but it seems to me its always the UK who is front of the pack in being an aggressive partner with the US. Errmmm, well, they do. Also they're not quite as big on national chest thumping as the UK. And they're less keen on sucking up to the US. And no post Brexit global UK nonsense either.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 11, 2024 22:10:03 GMT
Not a country - they are rebels. Simple answer stop firing on civilian ships and NATO vessels. Seems a lot more complicated than that.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movementAs usual we (so it seems) will wade in. Don't be surprised if the number of small boats swell even further. But answer me this, why doesn't Germany, Norway, France, Denmark etc get involved? Lets see maybe some of them will but it seems to me its always the UK who is front of the pack in being an aggressive partner with the US. The houthi movement and the situation overall may be 'complicated' - these things normally are (see Houthis/Yemen and Saudi Arabia for starters). But the fact that international shipping is being attacked in international waters is not at all complicated. It's illegal under international law, its terrorism, and it is a direct threat to many countries interest as well as the rule of international law. Re. Britain being a standout US side by side partner. There is of course much truth in that. But I don't think it is as simple as you are portraying. In Syria and Libya, France was a significant player, more so than the UK even. Canada also been involved in at least one of those. France is also currently operating in the Red Sea along with the US and UK. If it heats up I expect more will come in. The Danish and Norwegian navies are a fraction of the size of the RN, as indeed are the populations of their countries. Germany of course has self imposed restrictions on overseas intervention - albeit reducing - thanks to its heritage. It did though contribute to Afghanistan - though a factor there may have been the US's original invoking of article 5. Despite the diminution of the Royal Navy, one of the areas the RN does have world class assets is air defence: namely the T45s*. So the current operations down there are the sort of thing the RN might be expected to take a lead role in vs other NATO/Western countries that do not have similar capability. I'd surmise. That said, when it comes to some land counter strike, then short of there being a QE or PoW carrier down there, I'm far less certain what the UK can bring to the table. Unless they are seriously considering submarine launched TLAMs which I would have thought unlikely and inappropriate/overkill. *assuming they aren't in port being repaired, or drifting aimlessly in the Gulf thanks to breakdown in their powerplants in warm waters.....
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 11, 2024 22:13:24 GMT
Not a country - they are rebels. Simple answer stop firing on civilian ships and NATO vessels. Seems a lot more complicated than that. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movementAs usual we (so it seems) will wade in. Don't be surprised if the number of small boats swell even further. But answer me this, why doesn't Germany, Norway, France, Denmark etc get involved? Lets see maybe some of them will but it seems to me its always the UK who is front of the pack in being an aggressive partner with the US. Not really ... they arent the recognised government of Yemen so rebels. The French are involved, they have a frigate there shooting down drones and stopping ships from being seized. The Italians are sending/have sent a frigate and there are 40 odd countries involved in the operation. Unclear as yet who will join in a strike, though will probably depend on who has offensive platforms down there - US have a carrier battlegroup, French frigate has Scalp cruise (Storm Shadow), Diamond & Lancaster (doubt Richmond is there yet) have Harpoon (not exactly designed for ground attack) Seems to be UK leading on this one, not the US. Gulf has always been a British sphere more than the European countries
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merlin99
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Post by merlin99 on Jan 11, 2024 23:08:39 GMT
Back in 1958 in what was Aden I was involved in bombing and staffing these bastards in their mountains. Fat lot of good that did!!!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 12, 2024 8:10:25 GMT
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 12, 2024 8:57:18 GMT
I think it's more Red Sea / Bab al-Mandab Strait, but yeah,
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 12, 2024 9:04:26 GMT
I think it's more Red Sea / Bab al-Mandab Strait, but yeah, You're right. I was getting confused with yesterday's Gulf of Oman tanker "seizure"/hijacking... Even more so, since that's the direct approach to Suez. And we know what happened when EverGiven got wedged.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 12, 2024 9:15:01 GMT
michaelc you posted this in the ukraine thread but its at least as pertinent here as well. I understand your concerns and fear, and indeed historical perspective which are inevitably forever skewed by e.g. Iraq in particular. But the simple question is "What do you propose instead". The fact that Yemen itself is nowhere near us is virtually irrelevant ? Because this is not about a power struggle in Yemen - unlike the Saudi's awful campaign there against the Houthis - nor directly about a power struggle between Yemen and somewhere else. Even if geo politics provides the backdrop. The issue here is that international shipping is being - indeed virtually has been - driven out of the Red Sea by illegal attacks. The fact that it is 'nowhere near us' is irrelevant - it is very much 'on our doorstep' regardless of distance from us. Are you suggesting that the west should sit back and allow the Red Sea to be closed down ? The Red Sea is as I'm sure you are aware absolutely critical to international trade.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 12, 2024 10:31:56 GMT
...as far as Iraq and Afghanistan went, there's a whole raft of issues surrounding both the way we went in and the way we left. I'm in the middle of reading Rory Stewart's Politics On The Edge at the mo - and if you want an excoriating analysis of how badly we cocked that up...
But the simple fact is that Ukraine IS on our doorstep. It has 1,400km of borders with the EU and NATO. The Crimean annexation was the first violent border change on the European continent since WW2, and Putin isn't satisfied with just that.
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Post by mostlywrong on Jan 12, 2024 16:00:43 GMT
I have not heard anything about the country that is most affected by the Houthis throwing various forms of ordnance around: Egypt.
IIRC, the Suez Canal is their main form of finance, as we saw when the Ever Given parked up sideways.
And I know that the Egyptian tourist resorts are hundreds of miles away from the action but I bet they are suffering too.
The Egyptian Government will not be happy.
MW
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 12, 2024 16:52:50 GMT
Not out but why always at the front of the queue? Seems I was right in my original post before the attack. The US and UK attacked with a tiny handful of other countries providing logistical support. Why aren't they attacking and we providing the support? Nothing to do with Sunak's last throw of the dice is it. Nothing at all.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 12, 2024 16:55:41 GMT
Seems a lot more complicated than that. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movementAs usual we (so it seems) will wade in. Don't be surprised if the number of small boats swell even further. But answer me this, why doesn't Germany, Norway, France, Denmark etc get involved? Lets see maybe some of them will but it seems to me its always the UK who is front of the pack in being an aggressive partner with the US. Not really ... they arent the recognised government of Yemen so rebels. The French are involved, they have a frigate there shooting down drones and stopping ships from being seized. The Italians are sending/have sent a frigate and there are 40 odd countries involved in the operation. Unclear as yet who will join in a strike, though will probably depend on who has offensive platforms down there - US have a carrier battlegroup, French frigate has Scalp cruise (Storm Shadow), Diamond & Lancaster (doubt Richmond is there yet) have Harpoon (not exactly designed for ground attack) Seems to be UK leading on this one, not the US. Gulf has always been a British sphere more than the European countries Well, as predicted we fired a bunch of missiles into Yemen. So half of Yemen just got added to the list of foreign actors that will likely want to do us harm. I'm sure there are other disputes around the world we could weigh in on. Some more wrongs that need bombing into rights....
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