keitha
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Post by keitha on Mar 4, 2024 12:49:05 GMT
But....isn't the point he won in a democratic election ? Or are the people of Rochdale different from the rest of us? Yes, he did. A total stark staring raging cock-up of a by-election - the result of which will be barely relevant because there's a general election imminent. I agree a big anti establishment protest, I expect he will be a footnote after the general election, Labour voters didn't know who to vote as they didn't want Starmer to have to suspend him as soon as he got elected, but as I said before this was a quite liberal area at one point with Cyril Smith as MP so more of a shock for me was how badly Lib Dems performed.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Mar 4, 2024 16:06:33 GMT
The Dream Team Galloway and Macgregor *:
* - Galloway was unusually quiet in this interview, I think he knew he had met his match.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Mar 4, 2024 16:54:04 GMT
The Dream Team Galloway and Macgregor *: <snip> * - Galloway was unusually quiet in this interview, I think he knew he had met his match. More likely because he'd nothing to add to the opinions of a guy he already knows he agrees with on this subject. Galloway is only any 'good' when he's fighting. Macgregor's standpoint on many issue is well documented by the way (Trumpist, pro Russia, anti-immigration, RT gigs, the usual).
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 4, 2024 17:13:02 GMT
The Dream Team Galloway and Macgregor *: <snip> * - Galloway was unusually quiet in this interview, I think he knew he had met his match. More likely because he'd nothing to add to the opinions of a guy he already knows he agrees with on this subject. Galloway is only any 'good' when he's fighting. Macgregor's standpoint on many issue is well documented by the way (Trumpist, pro Russia, anti-immigration, RT gigs, the usual). Makes it all rather pointless ... MacGregor can just parrot any old nonsense he likes without challenge, evidence or anything that actually informs.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 4, 2024 18:02:38 GMT
More likely because he'd nothing to add to the opinions of a guy he already knows he agrees with on this subject. Galloway is only any 'good' when he's fighting. Macgregor's standpoint on many issue is well documented by the way (Trumpist, pro Russia, anti-immigration, RT gigs, the usual). Makes it all rather pointless ... MacGregor can just parrot any old nonsense he likes without challenge, evidence or anything that actually informs. But why do we need to listen to someone dripping with imperial condescension attacking him. I think there is value in listening to speeches that people make and hearing the views of others without subconsciously being told what I should be thinking about it. I look forward to watching it later. One thing I would say after 5 mins of viewing just now is I don't agree en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan was as simple as a (typically unfair and plain wrong) coup d'etat as is often presented by Russia's allies. The people were grossly misled by the person they'd voted in (Yanokovitch) which precipitated a revolution. At best you could argue the west was egging it all on but that's no difference to what all significant powers do everywhere on a daily basis.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 4, 2024 18:29:03 GMT
Makes it all rather pointless ... MacGregor can just parrot any old nonsense he likes without challenge, evidence or anything that actually informs. But why do we need to listen to someone dripping with imperial condescension attacking him. I think there is value in listening to speeches that people make and hearing the views of others without subconsciously being told what I should be thinking about it. We dont, but we do want someone who is going to make him support his statements, and separate reasonable comments & wild speculation
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james100
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Post by james100 on Mar 4, 2024 19:03:17 GMT
There are many things you adrianc and I disagree on, particularly politically, but the fact that we are in total agreement on this odious creature says an awful lot about how the average person in the UK is feeling. But....isn't the point he won in a democratic election ? Or are the people of Rochdale different from the rest of us?There are several demographic factors which differ significantly from the national average if that's what you are asking. I think everyone deserves to participate on a democratic system based on free choice, full facts and representation for the whole constituency not just the 'winners'.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 4, 2024 19:22:59 GMT
But....isn't the point he won in a democratic election ? Or are the people of Rochdale different from the rest of us?There are several demographic factors which differ significantly from the national average if that's what you are asking. I think everyone deserves to participate on a democratic system based on free choice, full facts and representation for the whole constituency not just the 'winners'. No, I'm suggesting that given there was such a large majority in any constituency, Keith's argument of there being a silent majority who seem him as "odious" self evidently doesn't work.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 4, 2024 19:51:00 GMT
Very low turn out. most people hated most of the candidates for one reason or another. Least of evils for most of the rest and an opportunity for his followers.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 4, 2024 19:55:26 GMT
There are several demographic factors which differ significantly from the national average if that's what you are asking. I think everyone deserves to participate on a democratic system based on free choice, full facts and representation for the whole constituency not just the 'winners'. No, I'm suggesting that given there was such a large majority in any constituency, Keith's argument of there being a silent majority who seem him as "odious" self evidently doesn't work. 15.7% of the electorate voted for Galloway. 8.4% of the electorate voted for the second-place candidate, the independent who apparently didn't even know he could post a leaflet to every home. On number of votes cast, Galloway would have been third in the 2019 election. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2020s
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Mar 4, 2024 22:02:37 GMT
The Dream Team Galloway and Macgregor *: <snip> * - Galloway was unusually quiet in this interview, I think he knew he had met his match. More likely because he'd nothing to add to the opinions of a guy he already knows he agrees with on this subject. Galloway is only any 'good' when he's fighting. Macgregor's standpoint on many issue is well documented by the way (Trumpist, pro Russia, anti-immigration, RT gigs, the usual). Macgregor might have some controversial views which may upset some of the more sensitive Guardian readers on this forum, but he is a US military insider which is why people like Galloway listen to him even though they are on different ends of the political spectrum. This guy is widely considered to be the greatest tank commanders/strategist in the history of the US military, he was Senior advisor to the secretary of defence under Trump and he was also Trumps direct line to the Pentagon for advice. Also with the likely return of Trump to the white house he is probably going to be given a very senior position - Trump considers him to be a military genius and he often phones in as a surprise guest on his controversial podcast. If you want to know the facts you should listen to this guy, he knows a lot of stuff that is not in the public domain and is very outspoken.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 4, 2024 22:55:20 GMT
More likely because he'd nothing to add to the opinions of a guy he already knows he agrees with on this subject. Galloway is only any 'good' when he's fighting. Macgregor's standpoint on many issue is well documented by the way (Trumpist, pro Russia, anti-immigration, RT gigs, the usual). Macgregor might have some controversial views which may upset some of the more sensitive Guardian readers on this forum, but he is a US military insider which is why people like Galloway listen to him even though they are on different ends of the political spectrum. This guy is widely considered to be the greatest tank commanders/strategist in the history of the US military, he was Senior advisor to the secretary of defence under Trump and he was also Trumps direct line to the Pentagon for advice. Also with the likely return of Trump to the white house he is probably going to be given a very senior position - Trump considers him to be a military genius and he often phones in as a surprise guest on his controversial podcast. If you want to know the facts you should listen to this guy, he knows a lot of stuff that is not in the public domain and is very outspoken. Thing is if someone has been watching Dimbleby and those before him for 50, 60 or 70 years they'll never watch anything else other than the regular channels and papers. There is actually an irony here as so often we see those older folk in Russia being accused of watching "state TV" when that is exactly what our older folk typically do. I suppose its comforting in a way, as it gives them a sense of orientation within the madness that raw news "feeds" can bring. Neither your not I will likely ever convince our fellow generation that its worth looking a little beyond the 6 o'clock news but at least we can open eyes and ears just a little bit more.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Mar 4, 2024 23:15:45 GMT
GRR the Telegraph ( aka Torygraph )
the 2% cut in NI saves the average person £1,000 a year
2% is worth £1,000 implies the average person pays NI on £50,000 a year
FACT
you pay no NI on the first £242 per week, then it was 12% now 10% to the upper limit of £967
so saving is 2% of £967-242 = £725 £14.50 a week £754 a year
so the most anyone can save is £754, which IMHO is a lot different to the average person saving £1000
Someone on BBC this morning "the last cut in NI only saved me £20 a week"
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 5, 2024 9:44:53 GMT
Macgregor might have some controversial views which may upset some of the more sensitive Guardian readers on this forum, but he is a US military insider which is why people like Galloway listen to him even though they are on different ends of the political spectrum. This guy is widely considered to be the greatest tank commanders/strategist in the history of the US military, he was Senior advisor to the secretary of defence under Trump and he was also Trumps direct line to the Pentagon for advice. Also with the likely return of Trump to the white house he is probably going to be given a very senior position - Trump considers him to be a military genius and he often phones in as a surprise guest on his controversial podcast. If you want to know the facts you should listen to this guy, he knows a lot of stuff that is not in the public domain and is very outspoken. Thing is if someone has been watching Dimbleby and those before him for 50, 60 or 70 years they'll never watch anything else other than the regular channels and papers. There is actually an irony here as so often we see those older folk in Russia being accused of watching "state TV" when that is exactly what our older folk typically do. I suppose its comforting in a way, as it gives them a sense of orientation within the madness that raw news "feeds" can bring. Neither your not I will likely ever convince our fellow generation that its worth looking a little beyond the 6 o'clock news but at least we can open eyes and ears just a little bit more. You're really trying to credibly claim that the Beeb is as much a propaganda outlet as RT or Iran's PressTV?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Mar 8, 2024 11:14:03 GMT
An Army spy operating at the heart of the IRA during the Troubles in Northern Ireland probably cost more lives than he saved, a report has found.
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