Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 30, 2024 13:08:32 GMT
legal advice which absolutely would have been predicated on whatever information the advisor was actually given......which kind of renders the statement a bit pointless. Or indeed even hole digging in nature. As someone else has said, it has managed to snowball from what seemed like a manufactured storm in a teacup, about a likely innocent mistake, to what is increasingly looking like a frothing cauldron of deliberate false representation. On electoral and financial matters. From a presumptive Chancellor of the Exchequer. My guess is she is going to end up going if the greater matters turn out to be correct. And Starmer is going to lose (more?) credibility because he has backed her to the hilt after saying his team had fully investigated (or similar). Still, the landscape has been reshaped by a never ending eruption of Tory MPs being suspended from Parliament and facing recall votes for various scandals, and the showering of cronies and donors with honours, all mostly related to brown envelopes, in the big scheme of things its likely to end up being a pimple on the a**e of an elephant. The unions won't allow her to be demoted or admonished. Starmer tried a bit back, she ended up being promoted after pressure from the unions Shouldn't the unions take a dim view of 'them up there' taking advantage of their position?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 30, 2024 13:37:07 GMT
Doesn't that imply anyone who takes out fully comp insurance is hedging against being a selfish moron? Isn't it the point that you insure against your own mistakes? If they don't pay out then, maybe they won't pay out when I dunno you scrape your car going through one of those traffic calming width reducer things....
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 30, 2024 13:38:23 GMT
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 30, 2024 15:12:01 GMT
None, as no libel has been committed. The press is simply reporting the facts, namely that the police have made a statement saying that he has been charged. Actually, the Police initial statement didn't name him, as I understand it. They just said that "...a man aged .... has been charged with". It was his own letter to the party that 'outed' him - along with the prior deletion of this social media accounts etc. - and hence the press are reporting that. If he is found not guilty, it will create as big headlines as the initial charges. That will be his vindication. Not sure what else one might or could expect. The press can't apologies or repay him for reporting that he announced his resignation due to charges of rape brought by the PSNI.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 30, 2024 15:24:29 GMT
None, as no libel has been committed. The press is simply reporting the facts, namely that the police have made a statement saying that he has been charged. Actually, the Police initial statement didn't name him, as I understand it. They just said that "...a man aged .... has been charged with". It was his own letter to the party that 'outed' him - along with the prior deletion of this social media accounts etc. - and hence the press are reporting that. If he is found not guilty, it will create as big headlines as the initial charges. That will be his vindication. Not sure what else one might or could expect. The press can't apologies or repay him for reporting that he announced his resignation due to charges of rape brought by the PSNI. Perhaps the law should be changed so that presumed innocent people are not paraded around the media unless and until they are found guilty.
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Post by captainconfident on Mar 30, 2024 15:43:50 GMT
None, as no libel has been committed. The press is simply reporting the facts, namely that the police have made a statement saying that he has been charged. Actually, the Police initial statement didn't name him, as I understand it. They just said that "...a man aged .... has been charged with". It was his own letter to the party that 'outed' him - along with the prior deletion of this social media accounts etc. - and hence the press are reporting that. If he is found not guilty, it will create as big headlines as the initial charges. That will be his vindication. Not sure what else one might or could expect. The press can't apologies or repay him for reporting that he announced his resignation due to charges of rape brought by the PSNI. Perhaps the law should be changed so that presumed innocent people are not paraded around the media unless and until they are found guilty. Not being named before being found guilty is the system in NL and Belgium. As suggested, it does stop speculation in the press about individuals who might be innocent. One thinks of the guy in Bristol, Christopher Someone, whom the gutter press tried and found guilty before the police found the actual culprit. In the Jill Dando case, having arrested the local weirdo, the press baying for blood, the police concentrated on constructing a flimsy case where had they been under less pressure they might gave spent time finding the murderer.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Mar 30, 2024 15:50:42 GMT
None, as no libel has been committed. The press is simply reporting the facts, namely that the police have made a statement saying that he has been charged. Actually, the Police initial statement didn't name him, as I understand it. They just said that "...a man aged .... has been charged with". It was his own letter to the party that 'outed' him - along with the prior deletion of this social media accounts etc. - and hence the press are reporting that. If he is found not guilty, it will create as big headlines as the initial charges. That will be his vindication. Not sure what else one might or could expect. The press can't apologies or repay him for reporting that he announced his resignation due to charges of rape brought by the PSNI. Perhaps the law should be changed so that presumed innocent people are not paraded around the media unless and until they are found guilty. As already mentioned, he was not named until he did so himself; the party was forced to suspend him and due to his role announce a replacement with the reason why. The initial statement released yesterday morning on BelfastLive is here: www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/husband-wife-co-down-charged-28907532 . Yes, he's presumed innocent until proven guilty but that principle doesn't override the need for actions that had to be taken according to party policy pending a criminal investigation, nor the obvious public interest given his status and the very serious nature of the allegations.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Mar 30, 2024 16:49:25 GMT
Doesn't that imply anyone who takes out fully comp insurance is hedging against being a selfish moron? Isn't it the point that you insure against your own mistakes? If they don't pay out then, maybe they won't pay out when I dunno you scrape your car going through one of those traffic calming width reducer things....If there were signs leading up to it saying road ahead closed and you still tried to go through it maybe. You usually seem to be covered for stupidity though. I guess an accident is an accident a deliberate is not an accident, so might be a bit borderline, you would be sensible to say you didn't see the signs rather than I saw them and ignored them. I don't know what the guy in question said.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 30, 2024 17:19:37 GMT
Perhaps the law should be changed so that presumed innocent people are not paraded around the media unless and until they are found guilty. As already mentioned, he was not named until he did so himself; the party was forced to suspend him and due to his role announce a replacement with the reason why. The initial statement released yesterday morning on BelfastLive is here: www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/husband-wife-co-down-charged-28907532 . Yes, he's presumed innocent until proven guilty but that principle doesn't override the need for actions that had to be taken according to party policy pending a criminal investigation, nor the obvious public interest given his status and the very serious nature of the allegations. Who in the public eye when informed their investigation will be "quiet" at a given stage would come out and talk about the charges? He must have known it was about to happen and thus your point is moot. The principle of innocent until guilty should in my view override all such actions. Who is the person alleging historic rape I wonder? Why didn't he/she inform at the time? The guy that may or may not be guilty is being punished regardless.
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Post by bracknellboy on Mar 30, 2024 18:49:33 GMT
As already mentioned, he was not named until he did so himself; the party was forced to suspend him and due to his role announce a replacement with the reason why. The initial statement released yesterday morning on BelfastLive is here: www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/husband-wife-co-down-charged-28907532 . Yes, he's presumed innocent until proven guilty but that principle doesn't override the need for actions that had to be taken according to party policy pending a criminal investigation, nor the obvious public interest given his status and the very serious nature of the allegations. Who in the public eye when informed their investigation will be "quiet" at a given stage would come out and talk about the charges? He must have known it was about to happen and thus your point is moot.The principle of innocent until guilty should in my view override all such actions. Who is the person alleging historic rape I wonder? Why didn't he/she inform at the time? The guy that may or may not be guilty is being punished regardless. On the second point: possibly. Its probably very difficult to prevent leaks in such high profile cases, though not necessarily impossible. But on the general point: it would have come out when it came to trial, regardless. We have a system - arguably rightly so - where Crown Court cases are public. So at some point it is inevitable. Also, he has a defence to prepare, and probably further interviews with the police I would expect. That is going to be time consuming, and increasingly difficult to keep secret for such a public figure. Also entirely possible that the party's rules require senior leadership to declare to the party chairman if they are about to be charged with a serious offence. Speculation on my part, but not exactly unlikely. And even if it didn't, it would likely be viewed that trying to hang onto his leadership position while fighting such a serious charge was not good for the party, on several fronts, including 'distraction' from the job he is meant to be doing. It would probably have been considered pretty poor political "optics" for him to have carried on regardless and then have it come out when the case was filed for hearing. I would imagine the party would have considered that to have been a bit of a betrayal. Politically, its difficult to see that he had any choice, whatever the merits of the actual case.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 13, 2024 20:30:46 GMT
Brexit
Central Government
Climate Change
EDF
Fujitsu
Gaza
GoP
Hamas
Hezbollah
Insurance companies
Iran
Israel
Katie Price
Labour
Lib-Dems
Local Councils
P2P
Populism
Russia
SNP
Thames Water
That idiot in Sydney
The Post Office
The Tories
Trump
Ukraine
I feel better now. Maybe.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 13, 2024 20:34:14 GMT
Brexit Central Government Climate Change EDF Fujitsu Gaza GoP Hamas Hezbollah Insurance companies Iran Israel Katie Price Labour Lib-Dems Local Councils P2P Populism Russia SNP Thames Water That idiot in Sydney The Post Office The Tories Trump Ukraine I feel better now. Maybe. Life?
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 13, 2024 20:53:12 GMT
Brexit Central Government Climate Change EDF Fujitsu Gaza GoP Hamas Hezbollah Insurance companies Iran Israel Katie Price Labour Lib-Dems Local Councils P2P Populism Russia SNP Thames Water That idiot in Sydney The Post Office The Tories Trump Ukraine I feel better now. Maybe. I'm glad to see you put that list in alphabetical order. I'd be worried about for your mental health if you hadn't managed that. Still, I'm intrigued as to whether there is any particular Local Council that you are upset by, and for why ? Or is it just all Local Councils ? And do wonder a little bit about priorities when P2P gets a first order mention but Putin doesn't.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 13, 2024 20:53:47 GMT
I feel better now. Maybe. Life? Golf
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 13, 2024 21:08:13 GMT
And do wonder a little bit about priorities when P2P gets a first order mention but Putin doesn't. An unfortunate omission on my part.
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