michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 14, 2024 20:09:39 GMT
As someone who knows almost nothing about military technology it does make me wonder. Had the 300 drones been 3000 plus 100 "super/hyper sonic" missiles all targeting a US carrier wouldn't that overwhelm its defences and thus sink it ?
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 14, 2024 21:21:05 GMT
The reason the US do not want to get involved might be to do with these new hypersonic missiles Iran has developed been given. They can probably sink aircraft carriers as well as hit heavily defended air bases. The Colonel also suggested that these missiles are probably using Chinese or Russian satellites for targeting since they seem to leave the atmosphere before re-entering at hypersonic speeds. The colonel may well have access to mystical sources of information unknown to normal people but he clearly didn't Google "hypersonic missiles atmosphere" before opining on them leaving the atmosphere and using satellite targeting. I did though. www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-physics-and-hype-of-hypersonic-weapons/ previously posted an interesting youtube vid on the subject and particularly where the hype is in "hypersonic" with regard to what Russia has been fielding. It ostensibly was actually about the recent tests of one of the US in development missiles, but in the process it talked a lot about the apparent Russian capabilities. It did a good job of distinguishing between the non-hypersonic missile being touted as such versus actual hypersonic missiles. Unusually for me, I was able to find the original post: link
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 14, 2024 21:27:02 GMT
The reason the US do not want to get involved might be to do with these new hypersonic missiles Iran has developed been given. They can probably sink aircraft carriers as well as hit heavily defended air bases. The Colonel also suggested that these missiles are probably using Chinese or Russian satellites for targeting since they seem to leave the atmosphere before re-entering at hypersonic speeds.which would tend to mean they are ballistic missiles being fluffed up as some new fangled "hypersonic missiles" then. A little secret: ballistic missiles have been reaching hypersonic speeds and somewhat more for decades. That doesn't make them "hypersonic missiles" in any meaningful sense of the word. This Colonel: does he reside in the billiard room and carry a piece of lead piping does he ?
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 14, 2024 22:00:03 GMT
As someone who knows almost nothing about military technology it does make me wonder. Had the 300 drones been 3000 plus 100 "super/hyper sonic" missiles all targeting a US carrier wouldn't that overwhelm its defences and thus sink it ? That's an awful lot of weaponry in the air at one time. But while quantity matters, quality also matters (ability to get through defences). The really feared threat from a US strategic point of view is the worry of China in particular having long range genuine carrier killer missiles. And hence through area denial prevent the US from being able to protect Taiwan. The other part of your question - or answer to it - just in case you hadn't realised. Carriers don't go round the oceans on their own. They go in a carrier group. The primary purpose of most other vessels in that group is to protect the carrier. It will include probably a couple of air defence destroyers, anti-submarine specialist vessel(s), guided missile destroyer. There will also most likely (always?) be a friendly submarine hanging around as well. Plus its own planes can deploy with defensive systems. Of course numbers can overwhelm defences. Particularly true at the moment if you can chuck a forest of cheap drones and the only current viable defence is your primary air defence missile system plus your CIWS. But that will change if only because of necessity. Of course if it is a UK carrier, then you can barely rustle up enough other vessels in the RN to actually form a carrier group. Plus it will only have CIWS for air defence as far as I understand. (Unlike US carriers which have their own anti air missile defence systems as well).
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 15, 2024 6:08:54 GMT
captainconfident registerme previously posted an interesting youtube vid on the subject and particularly where the hype is in "hypersonic" with regard to what Russia has been fielding. It ostensibly was actually about the recent tests of one of the US in development missiles, but in the process it talked a lot about the apparent Russian capabilities. It did a good job of distinguishing between the non-hypersonic missile being touted as such versus actual hypersonic missiles. Unusually for me, I was able to find the original post: link I wouldnt describe either of those individuals as truth seekers and are probably addicted to government propaganda.
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Post by Ace on Apr 15, 2024 6:38:40 GMT
captainconfident registerme previously posted an interesting youtube vid on the subject and particularly where the hype is in "hypersonic" with regard to what Russia has been fielding. It ostensibly was actually about the recent tests of one of the US in development missiles, but in the process it talked a lot about the apparent Russian capabilities. It did a good job of distinguishing between the non-hypersonic missile being touted as such versus actual hypersonic missiles. Unusually for me, I was able to find the original post: link I wouldnt describe either of those individuals as truth seekers and are probably addicted to government propaganda. I would say that they are much better informed than those who prefer to get their facts from Iran press and conspiracy theorists websites, and trust the information from an idiot disgraced colonel who's predictions have been so reliable that he would have a less than 1 in 7 chance of predicting what day it was tomorrow if you told him what day it was today.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 15, 2024 7:54:48 GMT
I wouldnt describe either of those individuals as truth seekers I suspect your definition of "truth seeker" looks a lot like "conspiracy fruitloop" to the vast majority, so they will probably be glad not to be labelled as such by you. Life's so much easier when you can hand-wave inconvenient facts and reality away as "government propaganda".
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Apr 15, 2024 9:19:47 GMT
I wouldnt describe either of those individuals as truth seekers I suspect your definition of "truth seeker" looks a lot like "conspiracy fruitloop" to the vast majority, so they will probably be glad not to be labelled as such by you. Life's so much easier when you can hand-wave inconvenient facts and reality away as "government propaganda". so these "invulnerable" missiles, all bar 1 destroyed en-route doesn't sound that invulnerable to me, I remember years ago the great military mind in Tehran ordering their pilots to either bomb or shoot down American satellites
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 15, 2024 9:31:57 GMT
I suspect your definition of "truth seeker" looks a lot like "conspiracy fruitloop" to the vast majority, so they will probably be glad not to be labelled as such by you. Life's so much easier when you can hand-wave inconvenient facts and reality away as "government propaganda". so these "invulnerable" missiles, all bar 1 destroyed en-route doesn't sound that invulnerable to me, I remember years ago the great military mind in Tehran ordering their pilots to either bomb or shoot down American satellites Given all three stops on the Abrahamic timeline are the same big beardy man, and they're only arguing about sales departments, you really would think that he'd step in and clarify the situation to put a stop to all of this, wouldn't you?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 15, 2024 10:02:51 GMT
I suspect your definition of "truth seeker" looks a lot like "conspiracy fruitloop" to the vast majority, so they will probably be glad not to be labelled as such by you. Life's so much easier when you can hand-wave inconvenient facts and reality away as "government propaganda". so these "invulnerable" missiles, all bar 1 destroyed en-route doesn't sound that invulnerable to me, I remember years ago the great military mind in Tehran ordering their pilots to either bomb or shoot down American satellites
5 Missiles hit the Nevatim Airbase, probably the Iranians New Hypersonic Glide Ballistic Missiles the Colonel has been talking about which they obviously had help developing from Russia/China. The main reason these strikes on the airbases worried me is because I would assume they were the primary target, are probably the most heavily defended area in Israel and there are also sources who say Iran can produce nuclear warheads any time they want now *. The Iranians said most of the missiles sent were just a decoy their main target were the airbases.
I assume since Israel had advanced warning this strike was coming they made sure their F35s were in the air at the time the missiles hit and not in the hangars when the missiles struck. As I have said many times experience has taught me alot of what you are told on the MSM is to be taken with a large dose of salt and you have to do your own digging to find the truth.
* - If they have not already which might explain this very aggressive attack on Israel.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 15, 2024 10:18:31 GMT
As I have said many times experience has taught me alot of what you are told on the MSM is to be taken with a large dose of salt and you have to do your own digging to find the truth. Yet 99.99% of the time, the "MSM" is a damn sight nearer the truth than what is "uncovered" by halfwits with an axe to grind.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 15, 2024 10:22:02 GMT
As I have said many times experience has taught me alot of what you are told on the MSM is to be taken with a large dose of salt and you have to do your own digging to find the truth. Yet 99.99% of the time, the "MSM" is a damn sight nearer the truth than what is "uncovered" by halfwits with an axe to grind.
"An American source told ABC News that five Iranian missiles struck Israel's Nevatim Airbase during Iran's aerial attack on Saturday night, causing damage to the main runway, a C-130 transport aircraft, and several storage facilities." - Storage facilities could mean Aircraft Hangars, but I would imagine Israels F35s were in the air at the time.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 15, 2024 10:26:09 GMT
Yes, and your point is?
Every MSM source is reporting the Israeli government saying that a handful of missiles got through, and that Nevatim suffered minor damage but is operational.
You're saying the same as if it's some kind of hidden secret.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 15, 2024 11:20:41 GMT
The beeb. They don't have direct news in Modern Hebrew for Israel. 
But some stories in Farsi....
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 15, 2024 11:30:34 GMT
Yes, and your point is? Every MSM source is reporting the Israeli government saying that a handful of missiles got through, and that Nevatim suffered minor damage but is operational. You're saying the same as if it's some kind of hidden secret. From the Beeb: 'Two US officials told the BBC's US partner CBS news that five ballistic missiles evaded air defences and impacted on Israeli territory.Four landed in the base - where the country's F-35 fighter jets are based - which the officials said was Iran's primary target.One missile hit a runway, another hit an empty aircraft hangar and one hit a hangar that was out of use. A fifth ballistic missile seemed to be aimed at a radar site in northern Israel but missed its target.'Edit: Not a great deal of digging necessary.
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